Flagellation can be fun!

Lord Soley

My good friend Baroness Murphy observes that just because you are mad it doesn’t mean you are necessarily wrong! (See her post below)

My evidence for the Health and Social Care Bill being a  mad policy choice is that everyone including the Government will suffer for bringing in a Bill that was quite unnescessary. For those in doubt about the quality of the NHS which is now seen around the world as an efficient system see:

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Publications/Fund-Reports/2010/Jun/Mirror-Mirror-Update.aspx 

Or the following quote taken from it:

“Among the seven nations studied—Australia, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States—the U.S. ranks last overall, as it did in the 2007, 2006, and 2004 editions of Mirror, Mirror. Most troubling, the U.S. fails to achieve better health outcomes than the other countries, and as shown in the earlier editions, the U.S. is last on dimensions of access, patient safety, coordination, efficiency, and equity. The Netherlands ranks first, followed closely by the U.K. and Australia. The 2010 edition includes data from the seven countries and incorporates patients’ and physicians’ survey results on care experiences and ratings on various dimensions of care.”

Also see: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7672260.stm

All of which leads me to the conclusion that following the painful passage of this Bill Government supporters are into flagellation!

13 comments for “Flagellation can be fun!

  1. Lord Blagger
    21/03/2012 at 1:09 pm

    The NHS certainly is efficient. Efficient at killing off patients.

    =============
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1106074/Deaths-hospital-blunders-soar-60-years-NHS-staff-abandon-quality-care-chase-targets.html

    Official records show that 3,645 died as a result of outbreaks of infections, botched operations and other mistakes in 2007/08. That was up from 2,275 two years before.

    The problem here is under reporting. The reported figure is the lower limit.

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmhealth/151/15106.htm

    However, as the NPSA itself acknowledges, there is very significant under-reporting of safety incidents (as is discussed further below). So figures for reported incidents are not a reliable indicator of how many incidents actually take place in the NHS.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/3287571/Nine-out-of-ten-preventable-deaths-in-the-NHS-are-not-reported.html

    Of the estimated 72,000 annual deaths in the NHS, just 3,200 are recorded by the National Patient Safety Agency, MPs were told.
    The Commons Health Select Committee heard evidence from experts in its first evidence session on its investigation into patient safety.
    The NPSA runs a system where all NHS staff can report incidents or near misses so patterns can be spotted and the wider health community warned.
    ==============

    • maude elwes
      21/03/2012 at 3:38 pm

      So, LB, what system is it you would like us to adopt, if you are so unhappy with an NHS?

      Explain how you would set up and run a health care policy. I do hope you are not going to come back with this as the alternative.

      http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/

      And as a person who had direct contact with so called US health care, I can tell you the rip off’s are astronomical.

      Sore throat, $1,500. Even better try this, saves me time.

      Here is a snippet telling you how doctors inside a different health care system make money ordering tests that are unecessary and then go on to prescribe medication that makes them money for your lifetime.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbfDaJMEsyE

      Then the bent pharmaceutical makers.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-8ItXRMPfA&feature=related

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr7W07nMiDY&feature=related

      I could give you a long list of the fraud. But the space is prohibitive. Just do some research yourself if you are really wanting to know the truth. It’s all out there at the touch of a button.

      • Lord Blagger
        21/03/2012 at 9:47 pm

        Talking of bent

        The Health Minister said NHS Lothian had “betrayed” patients by offering them treatment in England at short notice then marking them as unavailable if they refused to travel.
        When they declined, they were not included on a list of people not treated within statutory waiting times. In other cases, patients’ medical records were retrospectively altered to falsely show they were unavailable for treatment.

        Nothing like cooking the books to get those bonuses and keep your job.

        The US system is an awful system. As you say, its expensive, and it doesn’t have universal coverage.

        The model to look at is the Swiss system. For a tad more than they UK’s 1900 GBP a year per patient, its remarkably effective. The main reason is that insurer, supplier and regulator are separated. There is no conflict of interest. Everyone gets insured. The cost is known. No one gets to be denied health care at the standard cost.

        So, that’s your question answered.

        Now for my question. What should the NHS do about the relatives of those killed, or the patients it maimed?

        1. Tell them or keep it secret?

        2. Offer to pay compensation, or hide the damage?

        • maude elwes
          22/03/2012 at 10:16 am

          @LB:

          As you know I like the Swiss. And their health care system is indeed good.

          However, do you believe our government will return the taxes we pay to support a full NHS to us? Or, do you know as well as I do that they will force us to pay for additional insurance on top of what we already pay?

          Having been done for this lifetime, I don’t want to be done for a second lifetime. So that these fat, sausage fingered, bag dippers, in our parliament can chirp away on someone elses graft, and laugh all the way to the bank, care of them.

          This system was set up for our good with our money. The public should be incarcerating those who pulled this kind of fraud on us, not looking to find a way out for them to go on robbing us whilst calling us welfare fraudsters. What a laugh that is.

          And wouldn’t it be good if we sent an extradition notice to the US for those who set up Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac. Now that would be a start of reciprocated crminal deals. Making sure when these fraudsters arrived they were chained hand and foot and paraded in orange jumpsuits to the press, and refusing them bail. Then, setting up a board who would ensure they accept a plea bargain if they confess to their mass fraud of the public.

          • Lord Blagger
            22/03/2012 at 1:32 pm

            Will they return taxes? Not a hope. The reason is they need the money to keep the ponzi going. So your taxes aren’t going on services, they are going on debts, and we still in the low easy payments regime.

            So will you be forced to pay twice? Yes. The plan is that the rich pay the tax, but get none of the services. See child benefit for an early example. However, at some point the rich will say, I’m not a cow to be milked, my money is off to sunnier climes.

            This system was set up for our good with our money.

            I disagree. It was set up with our money, but for politicians good. Our good? Think again.

            And wouldn’t it be good if we sent an extradition notice to the US for those who set up Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac.

            We don’t need to go that far. We can get the MPs who signed for expenses, when they weren’t allowed them. We can get the Peers who claimed without going near security in Westminster. We can get them for the fraud of saying they owe 1 trillion, when they really owe 7 trillion. You could get them for the latest scam, stealing all your state second pension money to give to their favourites.

          • Lord Blagger
            22/03/2012 at 3:14 pm

            Another relevant point on returning taxes.

            Consider climate change. Big fear story, so the government decides to tax carbon to prevent carbon being used (Just what are they trying to prevent with a 50p tax?)

            Now what happens if CO2 goes up, but the great warming doesn’t happen?

            My view is that I’ve been forced to pay up front, lots of money, for something that won’t happen. When nothing happens, why shouldn’t that up front payment be returned, with interest?

    • Gareth Howell
      21/03/2012 at 6:24 pm

      will suffer for bringing in a Bill that was quite unnecessary. For those in doubt about the quality of the NHS which is now seen around the world as an efficient system see:

      These were my thoughts about the bill too, and also that the opposition to it, was unnecessary.

      The NHS certainly is efficient. Efficient at killing off patients
      they do have to sign for it, though, and the procedures for that are fairly simple.

      Get the patient on his/her own and then ask them to sign something simple.

      “Does it matter what you are signing? We’re looking after you well ,aren’t we???” (professional carer)

      I would only add one or two things to Blagger’s list and those are
      “Professional negligence and malpractice”.

      We are all being far too superficial here.
      the implications of instant communication
      between the surgeon’s consulting room and the GP’s surgery are such that the medical professionals will be able to run rings round the patient in their decision making, which can not be good.

      The Consultant’s dictum that the GP is usually a complication, ie another set of unnecessary problems entirely, is one that will have to be confronted, and weighed up, more directly than ever, by the patient.

      If the GP sends the patient in the first place because he/she is complaining of pain some where or other, assuming the surgeon is keen on his job, the patient stands little chance.

      I have come across young people in their 20s who have unwittingly had a vital part removed
      after complaining of a tolerable pain; the loss of the vital part being the cause of their rapid demise, in a matter of months.

      One wonders whether partnerships between GP and surgeon locally, can actually be the cause of such early graves.

      Does it matter? The NHS is efficient!!!

      • Lord Blagger
        21/03/2012 at 9:49 pm

        they do have to sign for it, though, and the procedures for that are fairly simple.

        ============

        Except that in most of the cases, over 90%, they don’t. They keep it secret.

        I’ve close personal knowledge of 5 killed.

        In the latest case, its now going to court. The damages for a killing a partner in a hedge fund, leaving two kids and a husband are going to be considerable, even for the NHS.

  2. maude elwes
    21/03/2012 at 4:53 pm

    @Lord Solely:

    Good thread title, whistle while you whip!

  3. Twm O'r Nant
    21/03/2012 at 6:30 pm

    Now Maude is going to tell us a story of DIFFERENT health systems!!!!

    Maude dear, you are thinking of dermatology!!! The one thing dermatologists don’t want is your skin to heal! Where would they and their pharmacist friends be!!!???

    Where would the skin fecktor 999axz salesmen be, if the skin HEALED?!!!

    different health care system make money ordering tests that are unecessary and then go on to prescribe medication that makes them money for your lifetime.

  4. MilesJSD
    22/03/2012 at 4:30 am

    You see,
    it is 63 million people’s individual healthy-habits and sustainworthy-longterm-wellbeing,
    that need to be supported and improved.

    No sector nor service In Britain has yet earned such a title as “National Health Service”,

    In fact Britain’s biggest employer is ‘our’
    National Illnesses Sector;

    it has never been a sufficient and longterm sustainworthy national HEALTH* and individual wellbeing-building service.

    * not shouting, simply emphasising for clarity of meaning and mindfulness.

  5. Gareth Howell
    22/03/2012 at 5:27 pm

    “‘our’
    National Illnesses Sector;”

    Miles JsD is beginning to sound more like an
    Ivan Illich supporter every day of the week.

    “Medical Nemesis; the Expropriation of death”
    Ivan Illich d 2002.

    A great thinker, whose fine system of radical thought has not evolved beyond his death, although now suddenly “Occupy” is doing useful stuff. An anti-globalist voluntary cooperative ideal.
    ————–

    Blagger

    I’ve close personal knowledge of 5 killed.

    In the latest case, its now going to court. The damages for a killing a partner in a hedge fund, leaving two kids and a husband are going to be considerable, even for the NHS.

    I can well believe that. My own local knowledge was of a school pal who died of misadventure at the hands of a part of “thyroid” removal surgeon, and nother curiously similar case of another 25 year old woman who suffered the same fate.

    The relatives accepted their fate with medical if not personal equanimity, that the gps and surgeons were always right.

    One wonders what arrangements were conveniently made for organ transplant as in the case of a 28 year old who made himself known to me, who decided to have his limbs removed one by one, and having no concept of
    the sacredness of the human body to guide him,proceeded to do so, and eventually limbless, other than the head, and torso, gave his organs to others in a supreme

    “act of generosity”.

    We have been reminded in the last few months by a bishop of the church that nothing could be further from an act of generosity than that, nor (in my opinion) anything more criminal, than removing healthy limbs from a young man, merely because he asked them to be so.

    Surgeons say they are well insured, but their professional organisations seem to give them far, far too much protection from CRIMINAL prosecution.

    No different from the police only being interested in the insurance claimants and not in the thief, which is invariably the case.

    Baroness Murphy has been informed (but I hope she does not lose her car)

  6. Twm O'r Nant
    25/03/2012 at 3:59 pm

    “they do have to sign for it, though, and the procedures for that are fairly simple.”

    Thw way different people sign their own “death
    warrants” is interesting and a reflection of their particular set of standards and beliefs.

    If you touch the pen, you may be considered to have signed the document. What is done to persuade you to touch the pen (and sign) is a different matter all together.

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