So I finally made the front page of the Sun, somewhat unexpectedly, see http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/3857501/Tory-peer-tells-British-fatties-to-brjust-eat-less.html
Lord Crisp’s debate on non-communicable diseases on Thursday which I mentioned in my last post included a contribution from Lord McColl, an old colleague and friend from our days together at Guy’s Hospital, in which he urged people quite rightly to eat less to prevent obesity. What he said was correct as far as it went…he stressed that obese people can’t do the exercise which is urged on them until they have lost weight. He feels the Government must emphasise more the personal responsibility that individuals have to eat better rather then urge them to exercise. The problem is that dieting when someone is overweight will help only if it sustained lifelong and combined with an increase in exercise. So it works very rarely indeed. If we want to see the obesity problem reduced we have to start with a population approach to eating less and exercising more in childhood and that requires major policy shifts in many departments of state and also tackling the food industry. The Government would like to do that using a voluntary code for the industry. We need to see if that works or whether the food industry will prove to be as intransigent as the tobacco industry.
And have you noticed that people giving out advice on obesity are always thin?
(And just another word on the Welfare Reform Bill…I’m still reading and absorbing the new posts on the website to my former posts)
Obesity may be a big problem in the UK, but on the other hand so are eating disorders. Any possible solution to changing people’s views on diet and exercise needs to be carefully considered as to how this will have an effect on the already alarming numbers of people (especially young girls)
with eating disorders. This is very much a mental health issue too.
What the government really needs to do is to find a way to stop body shaming in this country, and find a way to combat the media’s harmful perpetration of photoshopped beauty ideals, and stop people feeling so much guilt about food. Feeling guilty about what you eat, and feeling ashamed about the size of your body often doesn’t improve the eating and exercise habits of an individual, it’s just degrading to their mental health. Allowing people feel happy with their bodies as they are makes them respect their bodies more and treat them better.
There are two sides of this problem that need to be taken into account, and i hope that the government is aware ofthis in its ‘fight against obesity’.
Although I am moderate in body size, the battle with weight is a persistent one as I do like my food.
I personally try to burn off the calories by long walks – but I agree that you can’t expect an obese person to walk 4-5 miles per day, their joints just wouldn’t cope with the strain.
It is however difficult to give up on food – we are designed to like it.
I have however noticed that if I eat bland food, then I need more of it to avoid being hungry, but richer flavours/spicy foods seem to sate the hunger with far less quantity needed.
It seems that hunger is a combination of quantity and quality (taste/smell) – and if we can encourage people to increase the flavours of the foods towards stronger flavours, then people will automatically start eating less, and it wont feel like a diet, because we are not left hungry after a “diet meal”.
Maybe quality of food is an area that also needs to be looked at?
This obese story gets me really fired up. it is a game you play to move the collusion you have in it from the eye of the pubic.
You know the additives in meats and other food products create fat in humans? Otherwise how is it that the UK, having followed the crazy feeding patterns of the USA, find their population blowing up like the Michelin Man:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=the+michelin+man&hl=en&biw=1006&bih=489&site=webhp&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=sBWQTv2iCsy3hAfn7YQF&sqi=2&ved=0CDsQsAQ
And other European countries are not? Do you ever think of that? No. Why is that?
Does that not seem to suggest to the mind that imitating this ‘great super power’ and buying in on its practice of polluted food chemicals added to what they sell us may be the cause?
http://overseas-exile.blogspot.com/2011/05/fat-americans-thin-europeans.html
http://realfoodie.hubpages.com/hub/How-Europeans-Stay-Thin
I know you like to deny this fact because you want so desperately to cling to a country that has gone mad, in the extreme, yet you will follow it into an abyss no matter what they are telling you. Even when you witness the calamitous results.
However, that is okay if it is only you who will suffer. But, it isn’t is it? It is our entire population that is following along crazily. And the cost in health service bills will rise uncontrollably if you refuse to face up to facts.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/11/earlyshow/health/main6197493.shtml
And
http://www.preventcancer.com/consumers/general/hormones_meat.htm
And
http://commonhealth.wbur.org/2011/08/food-additives-obesity/
The problem with the British Parliament is they refuse to absorb what they know to be true because it is not politically correct or expedient to do so. And instead of looking at a problem head on, you do a Nelson.
As can be seen, the cause of obesity is not the main fault of the general public, it is you in Parliament who create these horrendous situations and then want to blame others for your irresponsibility.
Tell the public the truth and let them know how they are killing themselves by eating this crap. Hiding reality is colluding in the destruction. And buying in contaminated US and other imported foods is not worth this obscene outcome.
We all deserve better than that.
And you must have known about it, as it was raised at least a couple of decades ago.
Marion, I very much agree with that, it is important that we learn to be comfortable with a wide range of body shapes but somehow I suspect we women will be torturing ourselves for a long time to come but your points are well taken. IanVisits I agree with you too, good quality of food rich in vegetables and good protein is more sustaining and less fat generating than bland processed foods but somehow these habits have to be learnt in childhood and kept up lifelong, very difficult.
Maud Elwes, you aren’t really blaming parliament for making people fat are you? Come on, I’m sure we can be blamed for a lot but the obesity epidemic? No. On the other hand sitting in the chamber does tend to diminish the exercise one takes; the Health Bill debate next tuesday will be a marathon of unhealthy sitting…..
Baroness Murphy,
I think America is leading the world in corpulence among large societies, Louisiana is near to the lead or leads the States in our Union and I myself weigh about what you would call 22 stone (a bit less rather than more). I have also done and continue to do a great deal of work while consuming many multiples less of almost everything than many other people in the urbane and slim elites of the modern era. However, I do feel what we call physical education in schools is very much at the core of where the progress needs to be made, “chores” around homes and neighborhoods and school lunches. These are vital in civilizations where they are relevant and they are in decline. My weight does trouble me but so far I consume very little healthcare and have a high regard of my physical state except as to appearance. Worries about appearance and the state of children’s health do upset to the point that I need to take a break now and go eat a large comforting extra meal…
“The Government would like to do that using a voluntary code for the industry. We need to see if that works or whether the food industry will prove to be as intransigent as the tobacco industry.”
Come now LM, the government has been effectively lobbied by the deep pockets of the food industry into a meaningless and ineffectual voluntary code. If we want to cut fat intake (and salt for that matter) we need to follow Denmark with its fat/sugar tax.
So thin people get taxed because fat people abuse food.
Lets see. Why don’t we jail you because the police don’t catch all rapists?
Same logic.
Is Danish bacon in any way healthier than British? I was not aware so, and all brands seem well stocked with salt, to say nothing of water
DanFilson,
…and yet the Danes have banned Marmite. Whatevs.
The Danes have clearly got something right.
Ah! But, do the Danes stuff their pigs with chemicals and hormones as well as raise them on unhealthy GM feed?
Are we allowed to know? Or, as Baroness Ashton clearly believes, that would that put us off buying it?
@Baroness M:
If you hold a goose head back and stuff him with corn until he is about ready to burst from the inside, who is to blame, the goose or the head holder?
So, it is the same here. If you sanction the selling of meat and food products filled with fattening chemicals and not only refuse to tell those buying it, what is in it and what it will do to them, who is to blame for the outcome when they blow up like balloons?
And more than that, Parliament has denied the right for labeling explaining in coherent detail what their food contains, ie: GM fed, hormone fed, and this meat comes from and animal who is so grotesquely deformed they should be considered unfit for human consumption. That is honest labeling.
So, yes, I am holding those who are supposed to look out for our welfare responsible, in large part, for the obesity of our population.
@Baroness M:
If you feel our government is not culpable for this obesity outrage because of what we are being fed by the passing of bills that allow it, and which hide the facts of our imported food from the public. Then who is to blame?
It is well known that GM food is poison and fattening the animals that are fed on it to enormous proportions. Why would you then believe it does not pass the code on to humans who consume it?
This video is enlightening. And must be taken seriously.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/genetically-modified-food/
Here is a picture and study of a fat animal created by GM feeding.
http://healthfreedoms.org/2010/03/25/studies-show-msg-fed-mice-became-grossly-obese/
And another:
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/bgh.htm
These animals are genetically modified and they are feeding us the meat these animals are fed on. It is impossible to feed humans on this product without serious consequences, and huge weight gain is one of the most important.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYp1oeKGYTg
Now another scientific interference in the food we eat. Again, fat producing. Cannot be other. And this is Europe. A big eye opener.
Baroness Ashton allowed these horrific meat products from the USA and Europe to be sold in our supermarkets without any kind of labeling or warning to the public.
Americans are the forerunner of this money making madness. And no matter how much exercise they do, they will remain grossly overweight if they go on eating this s–t.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmkj5gq1cQU&feature=related
And here they do it to fish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyBuD3KNvJw
However, you Peers want to play this down as a joke and use the obesity levels to tax people who have no idea what they are eating because you won’t tell them. Now why is that?
However, I feel the right way to go would be to sue government officials who pass this kind of policy and take the entire assets they own including their savings, investments and any other valuable stock they hoarded throughout their life. As well as deny them legal aid to plea.
Of course, Lords who own large supermarket chains feast on the profits of all this, even though I doubt they touch contaminated stuff themselves. That is saved solely for their customers.
“personal responsibility that individuals have to eat better”
Less at all times of eating, not ‘better’.
Slow food not fast food whenever possible.
“Tackling the food industry”
I’ve won a convert to the cause of anti-consumerism, in this case food retail anti-consumerism.
I complemented a lady at the bus stop about being thin. She repaid it to me. As my taxi drew a way I saw her take a deep drag on a fag.
Feeling happy about one’s body must be important. Happiness has a long Catholic philosophy,
not to be ignored.
“Designed to like food” Was that the greast and glorious physician St Luke? I doubt it!
Blame parliament! Go on! It can’t be the cocoa futures market, can it?
I find that if I eradicate sugar products from my diet, I can eat two more substantial meals a week,
I eat less at meal time and lose weight when I want to, not if I don’t.My weight rarely varies. If I eredicate beet/cane products I am highly unlikely to suffer from diabetes, and scarcely need to go to the dentist,so we can close down Guy’s dental dept, which my forefather’s literary output started in 1702.
It is the correlation of needing exercice because you have eaten too much, which is such a false friend. If you are skinny and eat properly, blanaced meals, you do not need so much exercice.
Spare a thought for the people of Northern Kenya/southern somalia, every time you eat something you think you should not.
I also made the front page of the sun and fortunately they did not name me after an altercation at a party conference which…. backfired….
It said in three words across the front page,
“Bummer in Parliament”
Looking at the picture on the noble Baroness’
front page glory, I can only say that the very thought utterly repels me!
I thought for a moment it was she,and then realized that neither the due decorum of parliament nor that of the medical profession would allow such a bum to attend,either parliament in the first instance, or to a patient in the second, with the utmost respect of course to the female being photographed.
Lets tax the fat.
Create a new quango, OffLard. Employ lots of people. Peers can get jobs on the board.
Then everyone has to turn up for their annual asssement for which a fee is payable. Over the BMI limit, and we tax them at 95% subject to a minimum income linked to the price of celery.
Not only does it solve the fat issue, but all the money, less the quango’s fees, goes to pay off the deficit. Plus it has to be good for growth – woops, we can’t talk about growth – that’s fatist – but you get the gist. All those jobs that have been created …
Can’t spot the flaw at all.
I say start from the bottom up, that is stop showing our children adverts for sweets, fizzy drinks and convenience food… maybe wait till after 9pm like other things that harm our health. That way, it’s easier on the parents who have to say no to their children all of the time.
I don’t mind fatty foods becoming taxed more IF the foods that are good for us, fruit, vegetables and LEAN meats are less expensive to buy. Get children’s schemes going where they grown their own food. My children growing up, loved their fruit and veg because they were able to see the result of their own efforts in the garden.
Please see my current submissions to Baroness Deech’s “Women barristers” and “Terrorists and the terrified” (above)
because there are overarching and underlying bigger issues and ‘traps’ that perhaps need to be clearly distinguished first
e.g. that our present and future human Nutrition is in greater all-round peril than mere ‘fattiness’,
because (1) of the over-depletion of micronutrients from the soils in which our food has to be grown…
The late Cyril Smith did campaign for his own elegance from time to time and there was something about his physique which was not unacceptable. He was happy about it, so nobody was bothered.
Gar Howell, No it wasn’t me in the photo you’ll be pleased to know.
Croft, yes I fear you are right; tobacco, alcohol, fats and sugar, they all need the same sort of attack on the industry. But it’s still worth trying a voluntary code first isn’t it, if only to show that it’s a hopeless approach?
Lord Blagger.. your future as an elected Lord is assured I feel…we need more original ideas like that one.
@Baroness M:
Are you going to start taxing those who ski and break their bones for the cost to the NHS of having to hospitalize them? As well as those mountaineers, pilots, yachters, brothel visitors and on and on. They also know the risks they are taking when they indulge themselves. Or, is this only for the ‘fat’ in our society. Now isn’t that discrimination? Could you be harbouring thoughts of ‘positive’ discrimination by any chance? Nice little earner that.
The difference between food and tobacco is that everyone needs to eat. Tobacco, on the other hand, is always harmful, no-one needs to use it, and is only used by a minority in any case. We have to be careful with any tax on food to ensure that it is targeted to avoid increasing the cost of everyone’s food, whether they are overweight or not, and whether they eat healthily or not. Denmark’s tax targets saturated fat, but there are questions over whether it should target sugars or other things, and it is also going to be a nightmare to administer.
Part of the problem, though, seems to be that a lot of people don’t care if they are overweight. It always amazes me. The media are blamed so much for influencing people, yet show all the celebrities with their ideal physiques, but still the masses don’t seem to aspire to this. I do think there is a big issue with lack of exercise. Rather than suggest the problem is people are too obese to exercise, I’d turn it on its head. I’d say people don’t bother to lose weight because they know they have their car to get them everywhere, so it doesn’t matter if they are too obese to walk very far. We need to do something to reduce car use and to get people to walk more. Unfortunately I live too far to walk to work, yet I avoid having a car, and one reason is because I value the 15-20 minute combined walk to and from the bus stop at either end of the journey. I can imagine how sickly I’d feel if I didn’t have this daily exercise.
While I know Lord Blagger was joking, I do think there is room for a partial “stick” approach. It’s horrible to sit next to an obese person on a train or a plane, where they take up half of your seat as well as their own. Overweight people should be made to buy two seats or sit in first class where the seats are wider. Plus why should I be charged a small fortune because my bag is 1kg overweight, when the person in the queue in front of me weighs more than me and my luggage combined?
Give people some good reasons not to be overweight – images of celebrities with “ideal” figures in the media clearly doesn’t do it, so make it inconvenient for people to be overweight in daily life instead.
Jonathan, I’m surprised at your comments on obese travellers. Surely the problem is with the service providers?
As for making life inconvenient for your overweight fellow human being, what do you propose?
What can the “service providers” do? Buy an entire new fleet of wider aircraft? Trains can’t be made any wider as they have to fit the tracks. There are already seats that are wider, they’re called first class and are more expensive as they take up more space. If someone can’t fit a standard seat, they need to pay more for a wider one.
When I’ve paid a not insignificant sum to travel, I expect at least to be able to use the seat I’ve paid for. If the person in the next seat takes up 1/3 of my seat meaning I have to endure a lengthy journey cramped up, that just isn’t fair. In this respect, being fat is like smoking. It becomes unacceptable when it is affecting other people around you.
It’s not so much what service providers (and I agree with your sarcastic quotes but it’s a useful catch-all phrase) can do as what they have done ie reduce seat sizes to squeeze more in to a limited space. It would be trite to suggest that you too could buy a wider, first-class seat made for your own comfort – so I won’t!
Can you clarify if the problem you have is only with obese people or does it cover rugby players and heavy-weight boxers?
Suppose you order a meal in a restaurant, but then have to give 1/3 of it to someone at the next table, just because they are bigger and hungrier than you. Or you pay to fill your car’s tank with petrol, but then have the person parked behind take 1/3 of the fuel you have paid for, because their car is less efficient. Is that fair? Is the answer for you to pay extra just so you can have 100% of what you paid for in the first place? I don’t think so. So why should I lose a proportion of what I’ve paid for just because someone decides to take it?
The loading gauge on British is unchanged, so in a 2+2 arrangement the seat widths are unchanged. In fact, First Great Western, for example, have replaced the seats in their IC125s with ones that have movable arm rests instead of the old, wide, fixed ones, presumably because some passengers could no longer fit in the seats. (The first thing I do when I sit down is put the arm rests down in an attempt to keep people out of my space.)
I was trying to reconcile your earlier comment that first class seats are wider with your latest one but I’ve never travelled first class so have no idea if their configuration is also 2+2. I did find the recent story about South West trains, and their reply. It left me more confused – see if you can make head or tail out of it!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-12819180
http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/class450QuestionsAnswers.aspx
My 6’+ husband used to commute and certainly noticed a reduction in leg room sometime between 15-20 years ago, along with a reduction in seat width. If I remember correctly, this happened at the same time as rolling out new carriages.
Logically there should be two arm rests between each seat, not just the one that the male passenger hogs. Brunel should have got his way and had a 7 foot rail gauge which would have enabled travel in comfort!
@ladytizzy: Although this is getting rather off-topic now, first class tends to have a 2+1 seating arrangement, so much wider seats. It is also true that there may be slightly less width in modern carriages due to the way they are constructed to meet safety requirements, although the ones I usually travel in are over 30 years old. On local commuter trains they often have 3+2 seating which is wholly unsuitable for anything other than the shortest journey in my opinion, irrespective of who you are sitting next to. As for legroom, that’s a different issue and certainly something operators reduce to fit more seats in. So putting the obesity issue aside, yes there are plenty of things that could be improved when it comes to train seating, which we will all no doubt air next time there’s a railway thread.
@DanFilson: if there’s someone sitting next to me, I make a point of keeping my arm inside the arm rest, never on it, so as not to take any of their space. Brunel’s gauge could have meant wider trains, but today’s operators would not doubt have installed 3+3 seating!
Jonathan,
My sisters and mother truly diminutive and one of my brothers looks much as I did at his age when I traveled most — thin and athletic. Perhaps as a group we (all well-traveled) even out. However, I wish that all the times I have moved or lifted something for the thin people and small women encountered on my journeys which have prevented delays could be documented while the thin men or unmuscled fat people of this world chose not to help partly because they knew they would struggle. However, once one is actually seated one can freeze the frame on that moment and see the good skin & bones guy. Judgments would likely be made by weight. While I have plenty of fat it overlays a great deal of muscle which causes it to stay in the seat space allotted. Although I am fairly well miserable in the space coach or economy classes reserve for passengers on some of the 20 plus hour flights I have purchased I think that is always more form my rather modest height above average rather than my outlying girth or really significantly greater than average weight….
The truth is never simple. Modern minds are very simple and it must be lovely to have one — truly enviable. I think it may be reasonable to pay for two seats if one uses one but many things are reasonable that are not done.
My answer is, don’t use the service. Withdrawal of custom focuses the mind very quickly.
If everyone, simultaneously, for one week a month, refused to use this transport, until they made it fit for purpose, which it is not, how quickly they would change tactic.
The power lays in your purse people.
Jonathan, yes, very o/t but at least one matter has been cleared up in that service providers have played a role in your problem.
The other part of is whether your issue is more about overall size than a passenger’s BMI. I used one example of size (a heavy-weight boxer, a rugby lock). Likewise, would it annoy you to have an obese child who doesn’t encroach upon your space? Or an average adult, wrapped in several layers of winter clothing? OK, I won’t labour the point but I am curious.
It’s possible that it is in our genetic make-up to eat the average quantity that we do, based on the calorific intake required by the average human being 6,000+ years ago. As we are no longer hunter-gatherers, and no longer have lean winters to balance summers of plenty, and as we live more sedentary lives, our calorific intake requirement is on average lower than the programme says so we become obese.
Of course true manual labourers will still require a high calorific intake as they burn it off, but even they will have a problem adjusting their intake downwards when they retire from the more physical work.
But the rest of us have to make a conscious mental effort to combat the calorific intake our genetic instincts tell us to consume.
Exercise itself is the other side of the equation. I find it impossible to take artificial exercise, like walking or running on a treadmill going nowhere, or jogging to no particular destination. On the other hand, I used to enjoy – in fine weather – walking home from school instead of taking the bus, and later I enjoyed walking to work when it was within reasonably attainable distance.
So the message there is that exercise has to be for a purpose, linked to lifestyle. If you continue to eat what your genes suggest, you must take the exercise your body was designed for.
Partially joking.
Even for smokers, the deal is they can smoke what they like. It’s when they inflict that smoke on me, that the problem arises. They have a right to smoke. I have a right not to smoke. The rights of those who don’t want to smoke trumps the rights of people who want to smoke in other people’s presence.
So what’s the issue with fat.
Well, the main reason is that given the structure of the NHS, these people are self inflicting damage on themselves, and then expecting other people to pick up the costs.
ie. It’s an affront to people who in general have a very finely tuned sensor against being taken advantage of. [One of the reasons why Frank Galagers on benefits are a major issue]
So why not charge fat people extra when they use the NHS, for fat related illnesses?
Should skinny people get a tax discount?
At the end of the day, its just bonkers. Skinny people are being taxed for something that is normal – eating – because of the actions of a minority.
All the alternatives bar charging people extra if the health effects happen aren’t fair. After all, what if someone has a high BMI, and doesn’t cost the NHS. Should they be penalised?
So its nothing to do with fat. It’s all about finding an excuse for a new tax.
Roll on peer taxes. Double the pain for politicians, half the gain.
A tax on sugar and fat is an interesting but completely non-viable idea because those who make most profit from it are those who exercise the most powerful lobby, the food retail supermarkets.
I believe the term is Added Value, that making prepared foods for people to buy, always entails adding vast quantities of sugar or saturated fat.
If you go round the SM, most of the shelves are filled with this type of prepared food.
They do say that when you enter a supermarket you don’t stand a chance, with all the selling ploys that they use to get the money out of your pocket.
Ethical consumerism food retail endeavours not to use such methods, but if they don’t they are likely to lose market share to other SMs.
The only way to be certain of what you are getting is to buy your own veggies and do your own preparation, as if that needs to be said!
Try noting the number of times you eat sugar during the week, and eradicating that kind of food from your diet.
The hops in beer are the most obvious case in point. Beer drinkers imagine that because it is “bitter” beer that there is no sugar in it. In fact the bittering of the hops has the effect of making sweetness seem quite bitter, whilst there is in most beers a vast quantity of sugar in it.
Beer drinkers even imagine that the opposite of “Sweet” is “Bitter”; it is not.
The opposite of “sweet” is “dry”, in the context.
@TWM:
An excellent point. However, here is a cat amongst the pigeons.
I have a Canadian friend. He is of German heritage. He is 6′ tall, and has a slender, gazelle like body. Yet, he eats like a pig. And no, he is a mature adult, so it is not because of his youth.
People sit in awe of the amount he can pack away. And this includes, sweets, cakes, beer, wine, pasta, pizza, sausages, chocolate, cheeses, Italian specialties, Greek Moussaka, all by the bucketful.
And we are, every one of us, filled with all envy. The only leeway I can give him is, he buys only locally grown organic products, gets his meat from the butcher who never buys from anywhere else but the local organic farmer, six miles away. And his sweets and pies come from the local ladies at the WI who bake their goods at home. He is a big walker though. That is a stroll not a rabid trench at speed.
Otherwise, there is no accounting for it. He is the envy of all his female friends, who really resent his good fortune. We being sticklers to the calorie count, to make sure we don’t join the ‘fat lady who sings’ brigade.
Unless if it Glandular or bowel inflammation example Ulcerative Colitis the food we eat contains to much sugar and the food industries are just getting to grips with the amount of sugar salt Preservatives and other chemicals so its a bit of both really Profit induced and in some cases greed.
Yes huge profits made on added sugar and added saturated fat.
After casting myself as an anti-consumerist I was very nearly ejected from Waitrose on Saturday afternoon, who obviously believe in Consumerism. The local shop has a lot of business problems and want me to solve them all in a few minutes.
Ethical consumerism is surely their ethos, and if they told all their customers to go away, come back next week, they might even do better business, and not sell so much delicatessen style foods.
Is it perhaps the governments intention to try to set an example that people can become thin by eating less, by passing the welfare reform bill, hence cutting the money to many vunerable people, meaning they have no choice but to eat less?
Problem is, im already very thin – and it cant be doing my health much good each time the dwp / atos leave me destitute for a time period can it?
I would hate to think how bad it would get under the new bill.
But on the bright side, when they do force me into work due to ESA, which seems rather likely seeing as mental health descriptors have been decimated, I am quite confident it will only be a matter of time before I have a complete and utter breakdown, and (hopefully I wont do anything silly) if very lucky, will be well fed in a mental hospital.
You seem to have a point that people giving out advice on obesity tend to be thin.
Just like those who give out advice on moving to a new welfare system, and ESA etc etc, tend to be rich, clueless and or with vested interests.
Baroness, I understand your a medical person?
Can you explain how lima is evidenced based medical software as claimed? Where is the peer review of lima? Why can lima be over-riden? Where is the evidence of the claims?
I think it is unfair to stereotype the entirety of the USA as some people are doing here. There are enormous regional differences. Keep in mind that the whole UK is about the size of California, and everyone over here can’t WAIT to tell me about the differences between places 50 miles apart. I’m from New York City originally – when I moved from there to Scotland, at age 18, I was 5’3″ and roughly 75 kg. That is absolutely enormous by New York standards. (By any healthy standards, in fact.) However, I fit in perfectly with Scottish women! In fact, I was quite thin compared to a lot of women I saw in my new city! Which I have often pointed out to my Scottish friends when they started ranting about fat Americans. And it’s not just Scots – I was an absolute stick compared to my lovely, intelligent, English then-boyfriend.
I’m now rather fitter, because I’ve figured out that being healthy is really very simple. I’ve dropped three dress sizes over the last six months. I eat whole grains, fruit, vegetables, some dairy, and lean meat. I rarely eat sweets, and never eat fried food, or enormous portions. My diet is not obscenely expensive – the weekly shop for myself and my similarly healthy and much hungrier boyfriend usually costs around 15-20 quid, although we tend to get lunch at work on top of that. I have a consistent exercise regime which includes resistance training – first bodyweight exercises like curls and chin-ups and then, when I could afford it, lifting weights at a gym – as well as cardio, and actually takes up a decent amount of time. I do intense exercise for at least four hours a week, usually more than six, and not just a mild walk on a Sunday afternoon. And yes, some people can’t do that yet. Do what you can, even if that is just get your food intake in control until you can have a nice swim. And then start doing an extra lap each time. Then see if you can get a bike. Make continuous gains. Take personal responsibility.
It’s that simple. And yet, when I tell people who ask how I’m getting fit, I get blank stares. I get incredulous responses like “But whose diet are you on? You drink lots of appetite-suppressing tea, right? What supplement are you taking? Isn’t lifting weights going to make you look like a man?” No one wants to believe that it really is just about eating less and exercising more. They all want to know the “secret”. Or they just have completely wrong information. Take weight training, for example. I have heard from friends, magazines, TV, everything, the concern that women who lift weights will look like bulky men. They see pictures of competitive female bodybuilders, who are on all sorts of crazy hormones and supplements, and are scared off into yoga and mild cardio. But that is just so completely wrong! I have been lifting for a while now, and unless someone starts stealing in at night to inject me with testosterone, I will only become more lean and toned as time goes on. Women with normal female hormones simply will not bulk up the way men do. But people think they will, so they don’t do weights, even though weights are exactly what they need to do to look the way they want to. It’s ridiculous! We just need to get the correct information out there, and as you say, make sure that kids know it from the start and are acting on it, rather than on some false or even dangerous tip they get out of a magazine or from a friend.
That’s why I’m very happy to see the government coming out and saying “look, it’s really this simple.”
This post sounds like it comes from a fanatic. One of those who, when they look in the mirror, see perfection, where, others see noting but swollen forearm veins, strange skinny yet lumpy Popeye like muscles, and weird skin that stretches in a taught manner, akin to those who are so thin, you know they are suffering from some kind of eating disorder. Look at the celebrity breed. Many obviously sick in both mind and body.
And, where is the ordinary man or woman going to find the time for this addictive regime given to us all as a gift. I mean, are they to hire a ‘nanny’ as well as pay the gym fees on a annual salary of £25,000 a year. If they are lucky that is.
This all led me back to my mother and grandmother who had never heard of a gym. Ate a normal healthy diet they cooked from scratch at home. And never grew into a fat slob. Now how is that?
When did this obesity begin? What were the changes that took place in society prior to the growth pattern we see now? And why is it French people in general don’t have this noxious complaint running through their society? As most Europeans do not appear to suffer from.
Pics of the 1940’s.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBenak9wtkE
No fat, just handsome and wonderfully normal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMf01ro7oUg
And this is the America we all wanted to aspire to. What a difference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGq_tJMvIaU
And 1940’s Butlin’s can you see any fatties? I didn’t.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ntx1vdifRQ
No fat, no skinny weird looking women. Just healthy normal people. Now why is that? What has brought on this horrendous change? Could it have anything at all to do with what is in our food today?
No, of course not. It’s just those bloody low life’s who don’t aspire to the fanatic, big money making, worthless fad diets and expensive gyms, health spa’s and toxic products, said to create a slender you, they are the cause. Lets make them pay. As much as we possibly can get away with, that is.
Wow. Alright Maude, let me make a few things plain, as you seem to have taken offense for some reason.
First of all, I never called anyone a “bloody low life”, and never would, regardless of their fitness or their beliefs about what constitutes healthy living. Yes, I get frustrated when my friends ask me how I’ve been losing weight and then refuse to believe me when I tell them. Wouldn’t you? They remain, nevertheless, my friends. I’m not sure why you assume that I think badly of them, much less why you would attribute obscenities to me. (Or to insult what you assume my appearance is. Very civil of you. I must disappoint you, however, by pointing out that I still have about 20 lbs to lose in order to be healthy, and look nothing like an emaciated celebrity.)
Second – I myself don’t have kids. I might in the future, but I’m not sure. Either way, I’m sure you’ll agree that my decision about children does not affect whether or not I’m ‘ordinary’ in this day and age. Yes, of course people with children to look after have both less time and less money to engage in such activities. Not to mention that women who have had multiple children may find it difficult to shift the extra weight. Certainly I wouldn’t fault them for that (not that I really fault anyone for being overweight, unless they do as I have mentioned above – ask how to change and then reject the answer). I will point out, however, that my older sister, with two children in primary school, a career, and a husband who works long hours, has been participating in triathalons without hiring a nanny. (Why does nanny deserve quotation marks?) It’s far from impossible. Further, I have a salary of a bit less than £14k and my boyfriend not much more. We can afford healthy food, gym memberships, occasional classes (fencing, at the moment), and basic supplements without cutting back on our other spending or having trouble paying the bills. If those things will suddenly become hard to afford when I’m earning £25k, well, I guess I’ll stay where I am!
And yes, of course there are other ways to stay fit. I certainly aspire to the level of fitness which was the norm in the times you’re speaking of. And I don’t think you need to be “addicted” in order to reach that level. (Although I certainly wouldn’t describe myself that way. It’s still a struggle to make myself go to the gym. I do it for my health, not for enjoyment.) My parents, as well, were a part of that healthier time, although possibly slightly later than yours – my father was born in 1942. They also told me stories of having known no, or maybe one token, fat people when they were young. Maybe it was a generally more active lifestyle – playing football with the kids rather than playing football video games with the kids. Or the food – food that was by necessity more natural, less often pumped with fat and salt to make it look delicious. Or portion sizes. That’s something which I have always noticed as a problem, folks eating quite healthy things, but about twice as much as they ought to. Certainly during the wars portion sizes would not have been nearly as large as they are now.
@Gwen:
Egocentricity is a wonderful game to play with oneself isn’t it? I do it from time to time as well, but rarely as cleverly as you.
Gwen,
Indeed everything about your story is the essence of simplicity. Well, at least you escape my criticism of the modern mind. I did say the US leads in corpulence to my knowledge but I did not say all Americans were corpulent.
Thank you, Frank. I do realize that you weren’t stating that all Americans were fat. I’m sorry if I jumped on that assumption a bit too readily – it’s something I’ve gotten a bit overly-defensive about, as an expat.
Gwen,
If I go to visit the UK we could perhaps meet. Then you could always introduce me to your friends as a truly fat American and encourage them to let the vast majority smaller than I off the hook. However, I did weight myself after posting that I was nearly 22 stone and found I had lost a lot of weight from 306 pounds to an elfin 278. However, my wight fluctuated a great deal when I was young and thin and more so now with less visible effect. I have lots of injuries which flare up and so when I am partly crippled I tend to gain weight and when I can return to full function I start to shed weight again, But the odds are if we do meet you and your judgemental British friends could still use me as parasol for a small picnic if necessary…
Gar Howell, No it wasn’t me in the photo you’ll be pleased to know
oh good!
Lord Blagger.. your future as an elected Lord is assured I feel…we need more original ideas like that one.
He is so ambitious.
I fear I have to apologise to a Nursing MSc who wrote in the name of one whom I thought was “Fiona’s VICE”.
After being required to give my point for various deep judgments, I looked at the name again and discovered to my horror,that it was in fact
Fiona’s VOICE, and there had I been replying jauntily, on the assumption that an MSc nursing is bound to have plenty of vices, whereas in fact she only had one, and that was, thank God,and the noble Baroness Murphy, only one, VOICE!
Just to wind this up for anyone still looking….as a result of the little exchange in parliament that started this blog I was invited to be the ‘warm-up’ act yesterday at the Christmas symposium of the British Neuroscience Association at the Royal Society. I learnt more about obesity and its neuroscience than I thought existed; a wonderful programme of talks that explored the complexities of changing behaviour as well as the genetics and endocrinology. I wish you’d all been there.
Now let’s all go and eat and drink a very merry Christmas. And Dan Filson, thanks for your thoughtful comments on another blog but I am deeply diasppointed that we don’t share my addiction to Marmite, 99% salt of course but so so good.