The Immigration Bill

Lord Hylton

This had its second reading in the House of Lords on 10 February, with forty separate speeches. It had earlier passed through the House of Commons with relatively few changes.

I can understand the Government’s wish to reduce net immigration, with unemployment high, economic recovery just starting, and total population growing steadily.

Speakers from universities and higher education argued the importance of increasing the number of foreign students.  This produces valuable income and generates worldwide goodwill for Britain. Students should be removed from the immigration figures.

I and many others claimed that the Bill asserted the Government’s tough stance, without improving ways in which it deals with thousands of individual cases. We have a backlog of over 30,000 asylum applications. Well over 100,000 children are “undocumented”, ie they have no official status here, and may be liable to deportation. This is bad for them, and for the country.

Six days have been allotted for line by line examination in Committee.  I trust these will lead to some real improvement.

 

 

15 comments for “The Immigration Bill

  1. Lordblagger
    14/02/2014 at 10:17 am

    You spend 772 bn a year, on 63 million people. That is 11.5K a person a year, on average

    If that person is working, then they are accruing 1/30 of a state pension, costing 150K, or 5K a year on top.

    How many working economic migrants are paying 16.5K a year in tax?

    How many are paying 11.5K a year in additional tax for each migrant.

    On students, how many are paying for their common goods such as police, roads defense? How many are paying the 2K a year for their NHS insurance?

    Very simply, you are ripping the tax payer off forcing them to pay and subsidise migrants and students.

    We all know where lots of that student spend is going. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26024375

    Each year, around 100,000 non-EU students get their visas to stay in the UK extended.

    The programme sent non-EU students – who were already in the UK legally – undercover.

    They posed as bogus students with poor English, who wanted to remain in the UK to work illegally.

    One went undercover at an immigration consultancy called Studentway Education in Southall, west London.

    The BBC was told Studentway could get around compulsory English tests, even if applicants spoke no English.

    Director Varinder Bajarh said: “Someone else will sit the exam for you. But you will have to have your photo taken there to prove you were present.”

    The researcher was told a “guaranteed pass” would cost £500 – about three times the proper fee for the exam.

    After paying, she was sent to sit the exam at Eden College International in east London, a government-approved exam centre.

    So is that it? Those 500 pound fees add up and generate valuable income?

  2. maude elwes
    14/02/2014 at 12:04 pm

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10606460/Immigration-rebels-could-cost-Tories-election.html

    The reform bill, as far as the public majority are concerned, indeed does not go far enough. And the Tories will have no chance at all at a general election in 2015 if they make a u-turn on this matter now. They are very unlikely to survive anyway, or, if they do, it will be with a reduced count. In which case they will only be able to rely on UKIP getting seats to make up a coalition along with any Greens or others they can draw in, as the LibDems are finished.

    What may happen is, we find we will have to settle for a government of as many colours as Joseph’s coat, disparate ideals, if indeed coalition government, rather than a democratically elected strong group with a mandate is to be accepted as the future for us. The real problem with immigration is, it has not been cut to anything like the promises made. Student visas are a smokescreen for illegal settlement here. To pretend otherwise is not only naive it’s dishonest.

    Migrationwatch have it right on the button.

    http://www.migrationwatchuk.org.uk/briefingPaper/document/265

  3. Gareth Howell
    14/02/2014 at 5:34 pm

    My good friend Lord Blagger will recall a language school in the west end, in 1965, which was obtaining as permanent visas as possible for anybody from anywhere in the world, and making a jolly good living at it too.
    There were quite a few such schools which specialized thus even then. It surprises me a little therefore to see a newspaper headline yesterday saying some thing like,
    “Immigrant school visa scandal”. I understand that we have had a Scandal lasting, at the very least, for precisely 50 years.

    There are times when I think I really ought to be there in the Grand chamber, to give the benefit of my advice, but this is not one.

    • Lord Hylton
      Lord Hylton
      17/02/2014 at 11:29 am

      Yes, of course there have been some bogus colleges and fake language schools; and some students have deliberately overstayed and abused the system.

      Successive governments, however, have acted firmly to stop fraudulent schools and colleges, and to prevent overstaying.

      Like other speakers in the 2nd Reading Debate on the Bill, I am concerned that bona-fide students from the rest of the world should not be put off coming to Britain.

      • maude elwes
        17/02/2014 at 12:07 pm

        Now why would bona-fide students be put off coming to the UK? That is an odd statement to make and not realistic, after all we can clearly see a large percentage of students coming from outside the EU are doing in order to gain the right to reside here. Which is also creating havoc in other European states as they then have the right to live in any of them adding to their tax payers burden.

        The general public here are being filled with nonsense from all sides of the story. Just look at this clip from RT news. The only place you can go for balance in this country today.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_OcMcUR4nc

        UKIP is lying on the issue of EU immigration by pretending those who come from Europe are the majority swelling our need for additional infrastructure and the guy from Luxembourg refuses to accept ‘democracy’ is the basic right of every individual to fight against what they believe is not in their best interests. Do those who plan to vote from Europe know they believe we do not have a problem other than with Europe? I don’t think they do.

        Both these politicians cited in this news clip are not being completely honest with the viewers. First 80% of all immigrants into the UK come from outside of Europe. Only 20% emanate from within the 27 member states. So, the guy from Luxemburg is correct on that. The UKIP guy denies this is true and claims Europe are the controllers of our boarders both within and without.

        However, the chap from Lux claims the Swiss are importing people only via Schengen, which is also not reality. Most of those who migrate into Switzerland are from Turkey, Africa and Asia, putting enormous pressure on their infrastructure and changing their culture at an alarming rate.

        Where UKIP is right is in every state in the union should have a referendum on immigration as the Swiss have. That is Democracy and every individual throughout our continent has a right to a say in what happens to their way of life. And those running this show must give way to the rights of the individual to raise their objections to policies that are seen by the majority as destructive.

        I go along with that notion. However, I do not, in any way agree with UKIP or would vote for it. I want a united federal Europe with policies that suit the people of that union. And I agree with the free movement of people within. However, if Europe is the unmitigating pressure behind any of the states having to bring in unlimited migrants from outside its borders, then that has to change and fast. Businesses can then do what they should always have done, and that is to train the indigenous population, at their own cost, to work in their corporations. They, like all of us, owe society rightful taxes and must be expected to assist social adaptation. UKIP do not believe in that. They are rabid Capitalists who would run our country akin to the Tzars of Russia in their day. Anyone who would vote for them would have to be mad if they are anything but the billionaire class.

      • LordBlagger
        17/02/2014 at 1:06 pm

        So come on. 11.5K a year cost for a student being here based off average spending. Now not all of that is relevant.

        So how much tax does the government need to raise from the schools and colleges to break even?

        2K for free health care.

        Free defense.

        Free policing.

        You’re avoiding the question of whether or not the students cost other people money.

        Pretty obvious reason, you’ve either worked out they aren’t an economic benefit or you’ve not even considered the numbers, and jumped to a conclusion.

        Will you or won’t you put up some numbers?

        On the track record of Lords and numbers, and the wide spread financial illiteracy in the Lords, the betting is that you won’t.

      • Gareth Howell
        17/02/2014 at 7:42 pm

        The 17,000 language students who get to Bournemouth every Summer, starting June ending early December, are 80% bona fide language students. The cosmopolitan aspect of the town come city is based on those that stayed, but even then they may be EU citizens or those non-European citizens who have gained citizenship for whatever reason, in another EU state. Without the language business the town/city would be a shadow of what it is now.

        Lord Hylton may have forgotten the days when somebody from Ostend or St Malo was an illegal immigrant, before the Treaty of Rome 1972.
        Plenty of fuss was made about the illegal language schools even then.

        The UK is an Open door, even to those Central Africans
        who can speak perfect English, and claim they are from
        Jamaica. The old conditions for immigration to the USA
        apply throughout the world.
        “Keep your head down and your nose clean, work hard and good things will start to happen.”

        • maude elwes
          18/02/2014 at 1:23 pm

          @Gareth Howell:

          Once again you are ful of sidelines and lets pretend its all wonderfula nd we are so lucky to have such a cosmopolitan atmosphere.

          Well, lets start with the fact you admit to and that is the people of the UK have been complaining since god knows when. All the time politicians and people like of your ilk telling them it’s wonderful and how small minded they are to like their environment, culture and town the way they have always enjoyed it and wanted for their kids.

          Then we move on to this being an open door policy akin t the USA. Have you ever been to such a desolate Western country of ghettos. Everywhere you go it is sectioned into ethnic and cultural divided. The Japanese community, the Italian community, the Greek community, the Jewish community the African community with maybe a little Caribbean thrown in the mix, the Asian community with the Muslin contingent on the side, the European central mix, those that get along, French German, Scandinavian, with the then Chinese groups to one side. It is a horrible mess of disparate people all intensely disliking the culture they have to accept as a result.

          They may work in their jobs amicably, because that is the only way they can remain emloyed, but, they don’t live together. And the white European crown live in gated separate fearful groups who believe every minute they will be robbed or murdered by those from outside their walls. And every day we grow closer to that s hole of life beyond the pale.

          Their schools are third world and worse as there is no discipline whatsoever and no desire to toe the line. ‘gansta’ is the name of the game there and it’s spread like wildfire to every group in distress. Their kids are abandoned and feral in the raw. They all work 70 or 80 hours a week so family is a mirage. Their jails are full of immigrants dealing in drugs and violence, as are Europe’s as well as ours as we follow their depravity as if it s something we should all aspire to.

          That is a society in serious distress and we are right behind it stepping in their feaces as they leave it for us to pick up. and this is what you see as the future for us all to welcome with open arms as if it is the nirvana we dreamed of. ….Please…. You are sounding deluded like the Catholic Father who must not despair.

          the human race is comfortable with their own flavour. They don’t need the likes of you to tell them and force them to believe their nature and their preferences are deviant.

          Then of course you have that wonderful American ellte. The millionaires and billionaires that rule with the rod of the Tzars against those they exploit and abuse. You can run fr election in the US unless you can foot the bill. So, they are caught in a catch 22 situation and go on believing in the tripe they are spun.

          They deserve all they get and so will we if we don’t make the moves needed to free ourselves from such horror. What we need is a British people vintage Israel. Where we too can escape to our heritage away from the melting pot lovers who are simple minded and never ever want to be fixed in the pot themselves. Oh, no, my child goes to an independent school, we take our summers in the Italian Alps or wherever the culture is good to us. We don’t want what we see as right for you and we make sure we have enough cash to let you get on with it. Work away dear friends whilst we make sure we get an ample full time salary for just six months of the year. Cheshire grin and ridiculously smug social worker faces peering through their small eyes and tight lips.

          Know what I mean? Sure you do.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yL8oJJAEDs

          Every one who sits on his/her fat rump in that palace we call Parliament is responsible for this sewer we are in and every one of you should have the courage and responsibility to resign until policy changes or you can fight for those who are supporting you.

  4. Gareth Howell
    18/02/2014 at 6:21 pm

    I am sorry Maude feels so bitter about ethnic divides in USA, and indeed about the USA itself. Time she took a flight across the pond!

    • maude elwes
      19/02/2014 at 1:18 pm

      @GH:

      What makes you think I don’t have first hand knowledge of it?

  5. maude elwes
    24/02/2014 at 3:19 pm

    The more I read on this immigration issue the more I wonder at the true motives of those in Parliament toward the British people and it culture. What are they playing at, and why the lies? The massaged figures and the pretense at what is obvious to anyone with a pair of eyes is shamefully absorbed by them all. When they have to know what they accept is lies.

    Here is another report form Migration Watch.

    http://www.migrationwatchuk.co.uk/what-is-the-problem

    From number 4 on you will find it staggering in its content. From the whole of Europe immigration amounts to 20% of the total. From outside of Europe under Blair/Brown it was 200,000 per annum and now it is an imposing and rising, 176,000 per annum. Out of that figure only 20,000 asylum claims were made in total. That comes to 7.5 million in England and Wales alone, a rise of 3%, one in eight people, in 2011. What, I wonder, is the total in Scotland and Northern Ireland?

    Additionally, we read we are having to find education for children with 300 different languages and number 10 on the lists is an enlightenment all of its own.

    UCL found that between 1995 and 2011 migrants from outside Europe received £95 BILLION more in services than they contributed toward. Thereby bleeding the people of this country dry.

    Read it and tell me why you despise the British culture and way of life so much you used this method of workers to eliminate us and it from the face of the earth. And to replace it with what? With what?

  6. maude elwes
    24/02/2014 at 4:21 pm

    Here is a terrifying revelation on the European website.

    They are already selling European passports to those who want to be a national of Europe. Don’t believe it? Read this. Malta is asking Euro 650K to sell their EU passports hoping to raise 30m. How little a price they put on our collective countries and our continent. However, Malta is not alone this has been done by a few before them, just differently. At last it’s out, we have been sold as we knew we had.

    http://www.debatingeurope.eu/2014/02/24/eu-citizenship-mean/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=eu-citizenship-mean#.UwyHEM5BD_E

    ****

    That’s it folk’s. They are selling us down the river and now have the nerve to ask us to go along with it. I will give it to the EU, they have more ‘cajones’ than Blair and Brown, who are the traitors in the dark.

    This has left me speechless or is it breathless?

  7. LordBlagger
    25/02/2014 at 3:49 pm

    What’s to complain about? Pay the cash, get the residency. Then you have to pay taxes above a certain level (they need to add that). Strikes me as a good idea.

    What’s wrong is allowing economic migrants (optional) in that don’t pay much tax.

    Take the latest pay 150 a week and after three months you get access to welfare.

    150 not 149, because on 150 a week you pay employee’s NI. On 149 a week you don’t.

    So here’s the deal. For £1.56 over three months, you get to claim welfare. That’s right, for less than 2p a day, you get all the welfare you can claim.

    • maude elwes
      01/03/2014 at 9:34 am

      @LB:

      This link to a document put up on the Guardian newspaper, via a commenter on immigration issues, may give some insight into what is frequently denied. Your figures department may find it useful, as it is a paper on the expected economic and social analysis of 2000, regarding immigration. The one Andrew Neather suggested was adopted in order to ‘rub the rights noses in it’ but was shoved into the ”talk your weight’ category if anyone from government asks you comment on it.

      https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/61130/migrationreportoct2000.pdf

  8. LordBlagger
    03/03/2014 at 12:49 pm

    The broader fiscal impact of migration is likely to be positive, reflecting
    primarily migrants’ favourable age distribution
    =========

    So from a quick scan, there is no mention of the costs in hard money terms, and no mention of the tax received.

    What they will have missed is the 5K a year cost of the state pension. That is completely off the table, and so they come up with bonkers results.

    [You accrue 1/30th of a state pension costing 150K for each year you work. That’s 5K a year]

    Why do papers like this or the Cream study never talk numbers?

    Why is it that they switch between average and individual cases just to bolster the case for immigration?

    For less than 2p a day, and 3 months, you can fill your boots with benefits. Hard number, with the evidence. Sadly and deliberately lacking from politicians.

Comments are closed.