First, I must respond to the query from ‘Old Albion’ arising from my previous posting. There were no connections made to the forthcoming referendum on independence for Scotland during the debate about commemoration of World War 1 on Monday evening. The only indirect reference was the general acknowledgement of the unstinting contribution – and supreme sacrifice – of men and women from all the constituent nations of Great Britain and Ireland (including, then, both North and South, of course).
Beyond that the extra time gave us all a better opportunity to be more thoughtful, and I think that you will agree if you read the debate that the tone was sober, sensitive and forward-looking. If you have an opportunity to read my own short contribution you may (or may not) be surprised to hear that I have since received some very intemperate messages about “foreigners” and UKIP from readers of the paper my Grandmother always referred to as the “Daily Wail”. At the time of writing some 1,800 comments have been posted on its website, outnumbering much more significant reports. Of the messages sent direct to me several are so abusive and illiterate (“drop ded as soon as you can”) that I can only suppose that some people are trying to give UKIP a bad name by pretending that they are members. However, I have also received an equal number of very welcome messages of support (“thank god someone spoke up”): thank you!
Lord Tyler if you are interested in who UKIP supporters are (in polling terms) have a look at this blog post from YouGov President, Peter Kellner – http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/03/05/analysis-ukip-voters/
Your lordship could pack quite a punch in a speech of under a minute.
It was certainly a thought-provoking intervention in the year that the EU got the Peace Prize for having avoided war in Europe for the past 60 years.
It is also interesting to recall that the only previous period of peace for such a long time in Europe was in the Congress of Vienna era between 1816 and 1856.
From the yougov link:
UKIP is widely seen as to the Right of the Tories – but that is not how UKIP voters view themselves.
Probably because they do not know themselves.
I understand that UKIP do not accept members who have been members of BNP which suggests to me that they are desperately trying to avoid the image they have of being a very right wing or even fashist party which is in fact my opinion of them
That is the nub of the matter, and I agree with the opinion, a Fascist party, just a little to the left of BNP.
@GaretHugHowell:
You know the people who lean toward politics here on this blog are a strange bunch indeed.
For, we see this GaretHugHowell claiming, UKIP, which I am not interested in but understand the reason frustrated voters put a cross by their box, is fascist. LOL
When, by the same token, he says not a word or even a whisper about a country that is planning to have ‘secret courts.’ Where our people and others will no longer have an absolute right to be tried in open court with a jury and reported by the press for us all to see. Additionally they will have no right to know what is being brought against them as a charge, or, even have their lawyer in on the act. Is UKIP planning such a government should they find their way to power? This is outright fascism here and now but not a word from Garet…..
Somehow this coalition we presently have is more fascist than anything I read on the Nazi party after their first two years in office.
Secret courts of this kind will spread like wildfire, they are convenient for those in power. And those in power will without doubt spread this way of taking their citizens to court. Which in time will mean the likes of you in Parliemant, who will not run with whatever it is they want to bring on us, that you cannot abide. You will find yourself in a secret court and no one will know your fate.
Be very afraid of what you are accepting as a democratic move by a government who is secretly into rendition and torture, along with another government not connected to us here in Europe, and who is insisiting we are going against our deeply held traditions for their sake. So we are told.
Remember Blair and how he sold us out. This secret court idea comes from those who remain in the back room of that so that they will be free from having to reveal their duplicity in matters of depravity.
And how much compensation will these depraved people be paying those they injured and debased, without our knowledge, but with our tax payers money being used to pay them off? Because it will not be their own ill gotten gains they shell out to keep themselvs out of trouble will it?
Fascist!
now but not a word from Garet…..
I’m tempted not to reply to that comment but I have been a campaigner of one sort or another and only held paid office for a few, for 50 years, and some of them have been very much the ones that Maude describes.
But UKIP Fascist yes. UKIP is merely a one or two man party.
With regard to the subject pointed to by the noble lord Tyler, the debate was interesting not least for the two peers from the Indian sub continent who made contributions about their granpdarents or parents.
The word “Pacifist” was mentioned once, which is scarcely surprising, but there are those for whom I say my prayers, who have gone before me, and one was a musician/composer/organist uncle who was a pacifist at the beginning of the first war, whom I knew moderately well.
Towards the end of his life I was brave enough to ask him what happened at outbreak of war for him, and he replied that he had headed straight for the nearest coalmine and did not come back up for a very long time. (might have got sandwiches and beer down there for the first three months)
“I did not want to fight!”
He was not a sportsman; he was a man concerned with harmony, rhythym, a highly educated musician. He worked in the mine for the whole war, and went back to musical composition afterwards. He lived, with a
profound professional passion for music for 89 years.
One of the aspects of the great war I have been looking at,is the raising of “cycling” battalions in Wales, which were disbanded
“at the front”.
I seem to remember my late pa saying that
“They had bicycles; the enemy had guns”
My late dad who was 16 at the end of the war
was man of few words, and said no more. They were Welsh and there were about 20+ battalions raised in that way.
I am hoping to cycle from Calais down to Langres, a little south of the Somme probably next year, on my own “Road to Rome”.
I shall get my pilgrimage passport stamped at St David’s and Lambeth first!
There you go again, proving you are a party boy, not a genuine people champion. You are more interested in insulting me than you are to make a comment about the LibDems being in coaltition with a party that is akin to the one you call a fascist group, the present Conservatives. Ken Clark tried to run these secret courts through Parliament one time before. And now they have managed to pursuade the LibDem front runner it’s in his best interests to follow it through with a yes vote.
Come off the martyr line, it was’t you down the pit was it? No. It was someone else and you want praise for knowing about it or him. God, you take the cake on smug.
Dear Lord Tyler,
I am so glad you are around, Lord Tyler and I wish you could sum up the debate , enabling me therefore to comment.
God save the Queen. God bless the Lords and the United Kingdom.
Nazma FOURRE
Ha!Ha!Ha! Lean towards politics; that is, in the words of the olde song
“even funnier yet…
and the bedlam boys are bonny!”
those who have little or no experience or understanding of the way government and democratic representation works, should like Maude Elwes, go and take classes, and not be smugly satisfied by her daily propaganda sheet.
A Fascist party.
,i>Ukip’s manifesto is a collection of promises selected, seemingly, on the basis of “twenty things that really annoy people”, with no inkling of implementation method or any costings; a wish list for The Annoyed.
Scared of immigrants? Vote Ukip.
Insecure about the financial crisis? Vote Ukip.Hate the smoking ban, HS2, Brussels, travellers, burqas, regulation, tax, Boris, debt, wind farms, quangos, foreign aid, crime, Abu Qatada, tuition fees, lazy people, Muslims, foreigners, the hunting ban? Vote Ukip.,/p>
This comparison shows how close it is to BNP
in its methods. Not to make angry; just to annoy by its idiocy!
Kilroy has been informed!
I could not see the connection with the noble lord’s speech and the Scot nats. Perhaps I forgot to look!
However I have seen the mild concern expressed by Aelx Salmond, confronted with an Independence party which is nationalist,(UK) interfering in Scottish politics the guiding lights of which are Nationalist wanting independence, and completely confusing the issue by having far right ambitions rather than the well to the left ambitions of Scotnat.
I can understand that Scotnat would like a seat in the EP, which it might get for qualified voting, as per Slovenia and so on,
Scotnat getting a UK vote attributed to it, on…..Independence.
That is how different the agendas of the two parties are.
The question of the meaning of “Independent”
in the UK lexicon of political jargon is one with which Kilroy is thoroughly familiar, being a former labour MP, a party which understands that Independence has little or no part to play in modern multiparty democracies.
As the not unlearnéd Baroness Deech might have it, it is a “not-a-party” party which persists in the house of lords,as Crossbench or Independent.
The parish councils round England and Wales also suffer from re-actionaries such as the Independents in parliament by also denying that they have a party, whereas in fact they are seriously re-actionary and on the right in everything they do, and say.
These chronic misnomers, and deceits are being thoroughly exploited by the UK (national) Independence party. It is possible that they do not know what they are
either but the electorate by now,should.
They are trying to run me out of this parish on the basis of my Labour party membership, and have done so to others before! They won’t have much luck with me!!!A parish dominated patronally by a member of the independent crossbench party in the house of lords.
Get Real somebody!!! No way?!!
The Slovak National Party (Slovak: Slovenská národná strana, SNS) is a political party in Slovakia. The party characterizes itself as a socialist, nationalist party based on what it calls the European Christian system of values. However it is sometimes described as ultra-nationalist, right-wing extremist, and far-right, due to its statements about Hungarians and Roma which have been characterised as racist.
Heard of National Socialism before.
That’s the EFD; Kilroy’s fancy man party.
How far are we locked-in, as ‘unintended-victims’ of
1) post-colonial Greeds-inheritance
2) Thatcherian “there’s no evidence of global-warming…”
[nor of the Earth’s finiteness of (rare) technological and bio-lifesupportive resources)
3) The new research finding that this Earth- One could only longterm-support 3 billion human individuals and their technological-civilisation as at 2008 (when the population was already almost 7 billion and Earth-One was already being “economically” drained of twice as many and twice as much renewable and non-renewable resources as it can replace (replace neither in the short-term nor the longest-term, the latter being maybe hundreds of thousands of years, until we can successfully colonise an Earth-Two elsewhere in this solar-system, in this ‘local’ galaxy, or on a Multinational Starship Enterprise )?
————–
So how possible is it, for any community or individual, amongst us British, to be “positive” when the whole darned world is “negativised and negativising” , quite possibly already beyond a point-of-no-return ?
[PS what would be this ‘point-of-no-return’ ?
Has anybody an inkling ? ]
————
How effectively have you so far also ‘yoked’ onto your broadest shoulders (‘up there’) the fact that even individual-self-sustainworthying-further-education
{using such personal-healthier-habits guidances as “Mindfulness” (UK Prof Mark Willimas after USA Prof Jon Kabat Zinn and International Shamash Aldina);
“Relaxercise” (Bersin, Bersin & Reese);
“Six Thinking Hats” (Dr Edward de Bono);
“Leader/Teacher/Parent Effectiveness Training” using the friendly-cooperative win-win-win Method III (Dr Thomas Gordon);
and
“The Busy Person’s Guide to Easier Movement” (Wildman)
all of which are being denied by all of our mainstream Educational, Community, Health, and NHS modellers, planners and budgeters;
and none of which are being both supported and mutually-proactivated by any local Community or Neighbourhood Body [probably subserviently to the overshadowing “Negativisation” by major authorities, indicated above }
is impossible in current Britain to pursue individually,
nor to pursue mutually in an organised ability-oriented small local association,
or even in a trial-group,
of which none appear allowed to exist even when majorly funded out of participants’ pockets ?