United kingdom

Lord Soley

This exchange in the House on Thursday shows the importance I attach to the union bewteen Scotland and England. I think it is of great benefit to both parties.

Asked by Lord Soley
To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have any
proposals to inform the public about the advantages of maintaining the union of
the United Kingdom.

The Advocate-General for Scotland (Lord Wallace of
Tankerness):
My Lords, the noble Lord,
Lord Soley, said at Second Reading of the Scotland Bill that the United
Kingdom,

    “is one of the most effective political and
    economic unions that the world has ever seen”.-[Official Report, 6/9/11;
    col. 234.]

The Government wholeheartedly agree, and my
ministerial colleagues and I will do all that we can to make the case for the
United Kingdom. I also urge those who support this unique partnership to join
the debate and promote its benefits.

Lord Soley: I am very grateful
for that Answer. Does the noble and learned Lord agree that this message needs
to go out not just in Scotland but in England too? There is a very real danger
to our nationalism and we need to get out the message that many states around
the world envy our stable system, which has brought peace and prosperity to the
United Kingdom and is a model for other countries. Does he also agree that this
issue is not for any one party or any one part of the United Kingdom?

Lord Wallace of Tankerness: My Lords, I certainly agree
that this is not for any one party or any one part of the United Kingdom.
Judging by the response to my Answer and to the noble Lord’s Question, we all
share a common interest in spelling out the merits for the union, which is of
304 years’ duration. I think the question the separatists have to answer is: why
separate?

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201011/ldhansrd/text/111103-0001.htm#11110356000119

9 comments for “United kingdom

  1. Gareth Howell
    04/11/2011 at 11:51 am

    is one of the most effective political and economic unions that the world has ever seen

    Probably due to the seas around it. Is there any other explanation save a God saying that it is due to him/her?

  2. maude elwes
    04/11/2011 at 3:47 pm

    Scotland must decide for itself if it wants separation.

    However, it must be under no misconception that England and its tax payers will be footing the bill for its future.

    There is a notion that shale gas deposits will fund their future but those appear to be unfounded.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/shale-gas-plan-condemned-1.1104198

    Good luck to them. They will then be able to join the Euro and be connected as another ‘separate’ state. Imagine how it would feel to be free of the heavy burden of Westminster.

    I may move there myself! Perth is a particularly beautiful part of the world and add to that, free university education, and all kinds of benefits for when one grows old.

  3. Dave H
    04/11/2011 at 7:50 pm

    Of course, we have a successful monetary union, too.

    • Gareth Howell
      10/11/2011 at 8:33 am

      Of course, we have a successful monetary union, too

      The Scottish notes never smelled half as bad as the drachma notes though, I can tell you.

      In the Greek Islands they had a life of their own, almost walking, as though they thought money notes should do something more.

      Now they are all wealthy, with splendid houses, all mod cons, the days of the dirty note are well and truly over.

      Incidentally the transfer of money using recipient’s sort code and account number over the internet seems slow to take off in UK, and yet tradesmen who used to take guaranteed cheques, have not moved across to that method at all quickly. It is quicker and cheaper.

  4. MilesJSD
    milesjsd
    04/11/2011 at 10:49 pm

    What the World needs is United Lifedoms, not Kingdoms nor Queendoms.

  5. Gareth Howell
    05/11/2011 at 3:13 pm

    They will then be able to join the Euro and be connected as another ‘separate’ state.

    They will not, full stop. It is a region of the UK, which is a member state of the EU.

  6. maude elwes
    08/11/2011 at 5:22 am

    @GH:

    I’m not so sure you are right on that front. If the separation was complete, and Scotland decided it wanted to plant its bushes elsewhere in the world, where it felt it would be better served, then how could the English government deny them that right?

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-big-question-what-would-happen-if-scotland-achieved-its-independence-432319.html

    England is unifying closer to the USA and is therefore dragging all the other branches of the UK with them into this cauldron. Does, Northern Island want that and Wales? Are they aware of exactly what that entails? The USA and Israel have one policy and that is one which war with the Muslim nations appears to be expanding. Are the branches of the UK happy with that Westminster government policy? And do they want to be a sattelite of the US in those circumstances?

    Not to mention that a union of that kind leaves the UK open for future expectations it presently is unaware of. Next year will in all probability see another Republican government in the US and that is even more hawkish than this one is ever likely to be.

    Additionally, let me add this little eye opener. Our propaganda machines yesterday felt that the requirements of the Chinese ruler on Europe and us, the UK, was the right way for us to go. Not unreasonable that we should be expected to fall in line with their policies in lifestyle and the workplace, if we are asking them to support our banking industry and currency.

    Are any of you really understanding what the media is telling us with this happy news? Do you know how the Chinese live? The ordinary man in the street I mean. Apart from childcare whilst the prents work 16 hours a day, meaning their kids are chained to a pole outside their work place from the age of two, they have a lifestyle that is not worth living.

    So, the US is in hock to the Chinese, and now it appears we are courting the same way forward, with them. Along with this, and the unknown factors of who the IMF is, in reality, the future looks entirely bleak.

    Is this what the people of the UK want to embrace? Do you believe democracy is working here ad that we are being well served?

  7. maude elwes
    08/11/2011 at 11:44 am

    This morning we learn that this government, whatever that presently means, gave instructions to the border control chiefs to ignore scrutiny of those entering the country from July this year.

    When you read further, whistle blowers at that same department tell us it has been that way for a very long time. That in fact no control of our borders from outside the EU is regularly carried out by direction of those in charge at government level.

    So, without us being aware, five million people over a very short period of time, entered this country and no one knows who they are, where they have come from or where they have gone.

    This is no mistake. No one could make such a mistake. This was and is deliberate. And behind it lies a very sinister objective. It has been government practice for some time to change the ethnic make up of this country. Our leaders must have decided, for reasons unknown to the people of this country, that as a nation we collectively were not adequate. Therefore we needed an injection, on a vast scale, of people from the rest of the planet to create a different social make up and culture to the one we have/had.

    Clearly they feel the influx has not reached the required amount to fully change our society in to the one they have in mind.

    Against the will of the people of this country, Parliament continued with and now is more than, doubling its attempts to quickly reach a given target before public reaction is so forceful against it, they will have to decease. And they continue with this even with the knowledge that those entering are dangerous and possibly mean to destroy our way of life. Whilst at the same time, they force us all to pay for this colonization through abuse of our taxes.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2058634/Theresa-May-UK-Border-Agency-scandal-How-criminals-let-unknown.html

    And if you look at this link you will find ‘coincidentally’ the same situation is taking place in the super state across the pond, that we cling to and follow like lemmings.

    Does that not send a shiver of fear through your gut. That here we are being told via our propaganda machines that this was all a mistake, one they can do nothing about. And that they are ‘sorry’ but you know its too difficult to regulate and their human rights cannot be overlooked. There is something very dodgy with all this people. Conservatives fighting across the table with Labour,, telling each other they are the culprits when their entire raison d’etre was mass immigration and ethnic cleansing of this nations people. Claiming they would have done better than this and that they would stop this abuse if they were in power. What a crock that is.

    How are they going to get this manure back into the horse? Any idea? However, the real issue here is, they don’t want to either get the situation sorted or stop the influx of people from outside.

    Additionally, now we read police are to be given special bullets to fire directly at protesters, students, they tell us. These bullets are the ones they used in Northern Ireland, which not only killed adults but children as well. So, that amounts to taking the steps to declare violence against those people who feel they have the right to speak out against what their government is forcing on them. To threaten to shoot them is horrendous in thought let alone action.

    Do any of you understand the enormity of all of this?

    http://www.ice-news.net/2011/05/26/six-million-immigrants-vanish-from-homeland-security-records/

  8. DanFilson
    10/11/2011 at 12:55 am

    If Scotland won independence, would it accept its share of the national debt? And how would Scotland react if defence bases in Scotland were closed, regiments closed down, etc?

    If maxi-devolution, if that is the term, went through, by what means would the levy for the maintenance of defence and foreign affairs. I can see tea being tipped into a harbour as in 1774 or thereabouts if we don’t get that rights.

    For many decades those on the left in politics have been reluctant to proclaim their belief in the union for fear of being labelled unionists, which in Northern Ireland terms meant association with a bloc of MPs linked to the Conservative Party. Indeed not only were NI Unionists alligned with the Conservatives, they were also of a class that fitted the Macmillan and Home era rather than modern Britain. Since then the Good Friday agreement has led to a more modern assembly than the old Stormont, and British politicians of all colours should be less wary of proclaiming their support for the union whilst promotiing cross-border working well beyond the obvious of tourism and transport links.

    As to devolution and the union, it was always a risk that devolution would be seen as pandering to separatists and giving an encouraging nudge to independence movements. Wales has shown, despite some reasonable arguments for expanding certain areas of devolution, that devolution need not entail a crazy lunge to campaigns for independence. Scotland however is currently mesmerised by a charismatic politician who some argue bellows and showboats on about the benefits of independence whilst apparently being reluctant to proceed with the relevant referendum. British politicians should establish the true facts about the benefits of the union and not be afraid of speaking of them north as well as south of the border. If we look at how Belgium is on the verge of splitting in two, we have to ask whether breaking up the United Kingdom into further parts, conceivably with separate currencies, is truly in anyone’s interest. “The Union forever” was part of a good Civil War song, and could usefully be revived in this country, with little adjustment to the lyrics:

    Yes we’ll rally round the flag, boys, we’ll rally once again,
    Shouting the battle cry of freedom,
    We will rally from the hillside, we’ll gather from the plain,
    Shouting the battle cry of freedom!

    (Chorus)
    The Union forever! Hurrah, boys, hurrah!
    Down with the traitor, up with the star;
    While we rally round the flag, boys, rally once again,
    Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
    We are springing to the call of our brothers gone before,
    Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
    And we’ll fill our vacant ranks with a million freemen more,
    Shouting the battle cry of freedom!

    Chorus
    We will welcome to our numbers the loyal, true and brave,
    Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
    And although they may be poor, not a man shall be a slave,
    Shouting the battle cry of freedom!

    Chorus
    So we’re springing to the call from the East and from the West,
    Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
    And we’ll hurl the rebel crew from the land we love best,
    Shouting the battle cry of freedom!

    Chorus

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