Last Tuesday, I gave evidence, along with Peter Riddell and Professor Robert Hazell, to the Public Administration Committee in the Commons on whether or not there were too many ministers. We were agreed that there are too many, with the number now appointed, along with Parliamentary Private Secretaries, creating too great a payroll vote in the House. The needs of government patronage take precedence over the needs of good governance.
It was a good session. An uncorrected transcript can be read here. There were also some good natured exchanges between the chair, Bernard Jenkin, and another member, Charles Walker. Thus, for instance, when Mr Walker interrupted to ask a question, even though not recognised by the chair:
“Q147 Mr Walker: How many Whips are there?
Chair : Mr Walker.
Mr Walker: Sorry, how many Whips are there?
Chair : Mr Walker, please.
Mr Walker: Sorry, just how many Liberal Democrat Whips are there?
Chair : No, Mr Walker, please. I am chairing this meeting. Have you finished Mr Heyes?”
And then later:
“Peter Riddell: Could I just answer Mr Walker’s quiet intervention? He asked how many Whips there are. There are two Lib Dem Whips in the Commons, three in the Lords, so you could-
Mr Walker: So the numbers add ups.
Peter Riddell: Yes.
Chair : Was that your question? I apologise for preventing it.
Mr Walker: I apologise for being so pushy.
Chair : That’s all right, I’m used to it.”
Lord Norton yesterday the debate on the leader of the houses motion had to be adjourned due to an emergency in the division lobby. Who was it and are they ok?
tory boy: I gather it was a Baroness who collapsed. I am told it was a problem with her legs.
Poor thing! DodgyKnees of Sinope had a similar problem with his alma mater.
until, as I say, it was discovered that the Secretary of State for Wales is mentioned in statute, so you can’t do it overnight.
Well its 12 years since devolution took place. How long is overnight?
Secondly the District councils of County certainly are merging their interests and locally here (in Timbuctoo)have appointed a Joint chief executive for two districts, at a fine saving.
Gareth Howell: In 2003 it was apparently contemplated being done overnight, but to achieve it would require legislation. It was the same with the office of Lord Chancellor.
it was apparently contemplated being done overnight,
So now a desk with no work, (all being done by the Welsh Assembly First Secretary) continues to get a ministerial wage.
Neither Welsh speaking nor English speaking Welsh, always with Welsh speaking members at Westminster at hand, would think it a sensible use of public money.
I was under the impression I had read a constitutional/legal opinion that all SoS are identical (ie that they are SoS and that is the office and position) and that it is merely the duties they are given that are different so any SoS could be given the duties as exercised by the SOS for W without actually needing to be appointed SoSW.
On another note has anyone yet found examples of a Minister abstaining or voting against their own bill?
Croft: You are correct in that the constitutional fiction is maintained that there is only one Secretary of State. (That is why it is unusual for a statute to refer to a particular Secretary of State.) It is thus possible for one Secretary of State to cover for another.
There have been one or two occasions when ministers have abstained (Reg Prentice when he was a Cabinet minister, and also Jim Prior) and a blind eye turned to their actions. William Whitelaw as Home Secretary did once go into the lobby to vote against one of his own Bills, but that was a mistake – he had wandered into the wrong lobby.
You had to larf at/with Willie Whitelaw sometimes!
Thanks for that but whose policy was it not their own presumably as with VCs dilemma?
I rather liked the follow-up to those comments durin the session:
Greg Mulholland: I believe there are three Liberal Democrat Government Whips in the Commons, including the Chief Whip and two juniors. Just a point of correction.
Chair: Well, you should know.
Greg Mulholland: Unless they are fibbing to me, or hiding. I generally don’t listen to them anyway.
Matt Korris: Indeed, it was quite a good humoured session.