Lord Soley

Some good news on the foreign affairs front. Kenya completed it’s referendum on the new constitution peacefully which if you recall the violence that surrounded the general election and the loss of over 1000 lives must be given a thumbs up.

13 comments for “Kenya

  1. 10/08/2010 at 12:30 pm

    That Kenyans were able to work with the international “Man of the Trees” to actually achieve stopping and partly reversing the encroachment southwards of the Sahara Desert should have long ago shown not only Kenyan Governance but the “World-Community” and the United Nations, that Win-Win-Win Participatorily-Cooperative Problem-Solving is a better first-resort than delayed and much more difficult Conflict-Resolution ?

    It is Governance that is continuously the weak-partner, not The People.
    [( By the way, it might not be at all sure that the Gladiatorial-Coliseum “thumbs-up” would be good-language-in-common for peace-building )].

    • 11/08/2010 at 12:07 pm

      My slight mistake, that Kenyans were stopping and reversing the southward-spread of the Sahara Desert.

      Specificly they were indeed working successfully on their own north-side desertification by government-plus-community ‘win-win-win’ tree-planting, guided by (our Englishman wartime mortal-wound-survivor) Richard St Barbe Baker
      who in turn was acclaimed as the worldide “Man of the Trees” and did work on the Sahara Desert problem (further north than Kenya of course), as well as on USA’s threatened Redwood problem, and Australia’s desertification and longterm ‘drought-continent’ problem.

      The continuing and increasing need for governance-and-community Win-Win-Win Problem-Solving remains a feature here and, I continually suggest, in almost every other big and small needs, hows, an affordable-costs problem-area.

  2. Len
    10/08/2010 at 1:49 pm

    It is definitely good to see some form of reform in Kenya, and the political structures are much more accountable and seek to limit the legislative and executive powers of the president. For a presidential system, it seems fairly good. There’s no safety valve like we have for early elections or changes of leader, obviously, which is a shame.

    10/08/2010 at 7:10 pm

    The new Constitution is actually the result of American interference, not “Win win win”. It allows Sharia Courts legal Standing in a Nation that is predominantly Christian, while not offering the same sort of legal standing to Church Courts. Why should it? The world community would see that as imposing a dictatorship, how dare anything Christian be permitted. It also allows Abortion for the first time in the Nation. This as not the desire of most Kenyans, it was simply added tot he Constitution by Meddlers fro without pushing a supposed right that women should have to Abortion. President Obama of the United States himself spent millions to ensure a “Yes” vote, and a lot of Pressure was on Kenya to conform. This is no different than when Ireland “Voted wrong” and had to vote again on the Lisbon Treaty. Had Kenya rejected this new Constitution, the Progressive element would have rioted, and th world community been outraged, and they’d be off to the polls in a few months to vote again, and this would continue until the “Correct” vote had been given.

    • 11/08/2010 at 4:48 pm

      Thank you for that knowledge, Zarove; and I stand corrected about my probably-misplaced hope that there is an element of win-win-win methodology happening in high-governance and in local-community meeting-places.

  4. Lord Blagger
    10/08/2010 at 8:53 pm

    Spot the lack of irony.

    Great that Kenya has a democracy.

    However, in the UK we have to put up with political flunkies and lucky sperm in the Lords

  5. Lord Soley
    Clive Soley
    12/08/2010 at 1:24 pm

    Zarove – isn’t this more democratic? Aren’t you in favour of that? Improvement should always be welcome.
    Lord Blagger your sperm ain’t no different to mine! There are hardly any hereditaries left and I’m not one of them! Sorry!

    12/08/2010 at 7:03 pm


    Zarove – isn’t this more democratic? Aren’t you in favour of that? Improvement should always be welcome.

    It is neither more Democratic, nor would I be in favour of it if it were. I’ve made no attempt to conceal the fact that I am not in love with Democracy. This is not to say I want an authoritarian Dictatorship which is assumed as soon as I say I oppose Democracy, but rather I am a Libertarian, who believes in Individual freedom. However, I am a Staunch Monarchist who thinks the Crown should have a good deal more power, and the House of Lords should not be stuffed with Political appointees, and the Hereditarians should be restored, and that the House should be then Granted real power to refuse Legislation.

    So no, I am not pro-Democracy.

    Even if I was, most people in Kenya are Pro-Life, yet this new Constitution will allow Abortion. Most in Kenya opposed the legal Standing for Sharia courts, who now have Sharia Courts with Legal Standing. The world has decided that giving any Christian Court run by a Church legal standing is oppressive, no democratic vote needed.

    I’m sorry but none of that even fits in with what Democracy is suppose to be. Neither does the fact that the world bullies Kenya into giving in, much like it did when the Barclays bullied Sark, and no one cared because Sark was Undemocratic.

    How is international pressure and money really a better method for deciding matters than true reason and compassion? And lets not conclude reason means Humanist Philosophy this time.

    12/08/2010 at 7:31 pm

    I meant Clive Soley, sorry. I cut and pasted the name and somehow managed only the first part. I am not usually that Informal.

    Still, the New Kenyan Constitution only Represents Progress if you accept todays more liberal notions of what progress entails. That is, capitulation towards Islam, and shutting ou Christianity.

    Had the new Constitution proposed Church Courts be allowed Legal Standing, would you think that was progress? If not, why not? What makes Sharia Courts so special?

    I for one would be OK with the Sharias Courts if they had simply said all Religious Courts, including the Church Courts, would have Legal Standing in Civil Matters, but they didn’t. They wouldn’t, because whenever we think of Christianity today we think of it as Oppressive because this is the image of it we inherited from two centuries of criticism towards Religion, which was always aimed at Christendom. Its sort of a new Tradition to exclude Churches. the thought of Including them fills us with a sort of Dread.

    I also don’t see Abortion as a particular Improvement. You may call me horribly against the rights of women, and thats fine, I’ve been called a Homophobe on this board for advancing s Libertarian principle that people should make up their own minds on that topic, even though I said clergy should be allowed to perform same sex unions if they wished to, simply because I said private property owners should be able to exclude Homosexuals from business.

    But int he case of Abortion, I am Pro Life. I don’t think it should be Legal in Britain, because it is Murder. So I’m not going to fall all over myself praising this new Constitution as a step towards Greater Democracy over this, and its not Progress to see this horrible practice spread further.

    besides, even if I were Pro Choice and pro Democracy, how can I support something that is essentially against the wishes of the Majority of Kenyans? Thats not Democracy at all.

    granted, I don’t believe in Democracy, but its a contradiction in terms here.

    Its all just Politically correct tosh. I don’t see this as Progress, I don’t see it as Democratic, and I certainly wouldn’t care if it were as I’m not the most Democratic person on the Planet.

    14/08/2010 at 1:31 am

    One last apology, the last post was a bit rambling and I am usually a better writer. Stream of consciousness writing is not my forte usually, and now you see why.

  9. puniselva
    15/08/2010 at 12:17 pm

    As you’re talking about Kenya I thought I should point out what I’ve seen:
    Tribunals capture world’s attention, Ved Nanda, 6 August 2010:
    ”The new international criminal tribunals are unique, and are indeed a matter of pride for humanity. They send an unequivocal message that those committing egregious violations of human rights will be held accountable — no one is above the law and impunity will no longer be tolerated. ….
    Cases from Kenya and Sri Lanka could be next.

    While we’re on Sri Lanka, please let me point out:
    Sri Lanka’s disturbing actions met by ‘deafening global silence’ 3 August 2010:

    ”The Sri Lankan government’s clampdown on domestic critics and its disdain for human rights deserves a far tougher response according to The Elders. While welcoming the end of the decades-long civil war, the Elders say that meaningful progress on reconciliation in Sri Lanka is still desperately needed. They describe the international response to Sri Lanka’s worrying approach to human rights, good governance and accountability as a ‘deafening global silence’ that may encourage other states to act in a similar way. ….”

  10. puniselva
    15/08/2010 at 1:26 pm

    This is the time lawmakers in many countries should unite to press Sri Lanka to abide by internal laws on human rights and humanitarian issues:
    WASHINGTON (AFP) -A group of US lawmakers is urging the Obama administration to push for an independent international investigation into alleged war crimes that occurred during Sri Lanka’s civil war.

  11. Carl.H
    16/08/2010 at 2:20 pm

    Continuing Zarove`s anti-democracy theme.

    This from a Kenyan and online blog:

    “Democracy has put too much power in the hands of a privileged class of villagers to decide who rules us. The problem is that the villager often tends to use this power with disastrous consequences.

    More than a century of formal education has certainly enlightened the village. But the ordinary villager will still cast their ballot for their tribesman, kinsman, or clansman.

    With widespread poverty in rural Kenya, the school of life has also taught the man or woman in the village that it sometimes makes sense to vote with one’s stomach.

    The curse of Kenyan politics, however, is that we are a nation of villagers.”

    Is any democratic country any better ? We have a referendum coming on AV, are we the electorate educated enough or will we vote for our clan ?

    And if we`re asked for an elected Upper House ?

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