The Archbishop of York has suggested that St George’s day should be a holiday. Is this an idea worth pursuing? There are costs associated with creating a new public holiday, but we are notable for how few we have. If there is merit in the idea, should we actually have 23 April as the holiday, or should we follow the practice for celebrating May Day, which is not to have the holiday on 1 May (which many countries do) but instead have the Monday following as the holiday?
This rather prompts me to wonder whether I should raise again the idea of having a fixed date for the Easter holiday. When I raised it last year, it caused some readers to express strong objection. However, is there not a case for leaving the date of Easter alone but having the Easter holiday at a fixed time? A precedent has been set for separating the date of the holiday from the event being celebrated, so why not follow it for Easter? Or do the disadvantages outweigh the advantages?
Part of me thinks we should do away with bank holidays altogether and increase statutory entitlement to annual leave instead. I usually avoid doing anything on bank holidays because everywhere is so packed with people. The trains only run to Sunday timetable or worse, and the roads are jammed. It’s much better to take a day off in the week when most people are at work.
On the other hand, I do end up not taking my annual leave until the last minute, and I expect other people are the same. At least bank holidays force me to have a day off, even if it’s just spent resting at home!
Certainly, if they broke the link between Easter and the holiday, the question would be was it worth having alternate dates, or would it be better to let people have days off when they wanted?
I do think that a shakeup of the “bank holiday” system is needed as we have a cluster of them in Spring, but nothing in autumn.
I would like to see an independent study into the holiday system which would look at whether the current allocation is sufficient, and if the way they are spread out through the year is sensible.
Personally, I would like to see one extra holiday towards the end of November which could be used to mark the commencement of the Xmas season.
As with the USA’s “black Friday”, it could be a boon to retailers as well.
I am uncomfortable with the idea though of creating holidays for the sake of commemorating a religious figure or historic occasion.
Let’s decouple the holiday from events and that enables them to be more evenly spread through the year.
I am always in favour of further holidays 🙂
No, seriously, I am quite happy with the number of holidays. Yes, I know they are few in international comparison, but at least you get to use them, because they cannot fall on a week end. Once you figure that in, I think the UK is in a pretty average position.
As for separating the cause and the holiday, I would be opposed to that. While most people may see a holiday just as a day off work and a good option for a week of vacation, it should also be an opportunity to celebrate. But how do you do that if the holiday is not at Easter? I think we have enough holidays at fixed times in the calendar, and the moving ones make it just a bit more interesting.
Whether you take the government’s figure of 2.5bn or the CBI’s 6bn they are not free. In the private sector that’s a cost straight out of the companys’ profits and in the state sector my taxes! These days started out when there was no holiday entitlement but have remained despite the growing statutory provisions. If anything we ought to be phasing some bank holidays out! It’s only 4 days – yes four days – since the statutory entitlement went up to 28 days a year (5.2 weeks to 5.6 weeks) and the Archbishop of York wants more! I’m sure he’ll get a warm reception from the self-employed who get neither their 5.6 weeks paid holiday or the bank holidays but in a generous act by the inland revenue are still allowed to pay taxes to fund the public sectors enjoyment of the same! On balance then I’m leaning toward a no to your question 😀
There is no statutory requirement for allowing employees any particular day off and, as matters stand, I can imagine that, during this unhappy time, more employers are forcing their staff to take all their holiday entitlement as and when dictated by their employer.
Full time employees must have 28 paid days off per year, and I would think that most employers would deduct any more public days off from entitlement, thus reducing choice. It matters not whether Easter is fixed or not, or if new public holidays are introduced, while the choice remains with the employer. The element of religious observance is simply not there as is.
I have argued this point on a separate forum without a real understanding of what this means to people. There would be at least two million staff required to serve all those who are lucky to have a day off. Most of those are in low paid jobs, or are public servants on double pay. The disruption to the poorer employees in terms of child care would be disproportionate to earnings.
The ability for employers to refuse staff leave for public/bank holidays must remain for the majority. The only winners are those who have a job, do not have issues with child care, and have an employer who will give them more than the statutory minimum. Seems elitist, to me.
Of course, I shouldn’t forget the business owners who might benefit, and thus pay more tax, but that can’t be a valid reason, surely?
Cripes, wish we had a preview.
“I have argued this point on a separate forum without a real understanding of what this means to people.”
should read:
“I have argued this point on a separate forum without them having a real understanding of what this means to people.”
Sorry, and all that.
Unfortunately the Archbishop of York is disconnected. There can be no satisfactory explanation to residents of Carrickfergus, Cumbernauld or Cardiff why a day named after an ancient Greek figure with strong religious convictions and a loose relationship with England should be nominated as a British public holiday.
Let’s move away from Saints Days for goodness sake. This blatant but poorly constructed attempt to popularise the church belongs in the past. By all means let us have a new National holiday but can we please use some imagination for a change?
Croft,
I am sure any American CEOs would be heartened at your devotion to the idea that only capitalist activity has value. However many of us believe that there is indeed much inherent value in being able to limit how many days we spend making geegaws and widgets in favour of being able to see the sun and have picnics in fields. Have we not learned from current events that a frenzied scramble to maximum profitability may not always result in optimum conditions for everyone?
And, indeed, if that was what such moves were about I’d be all for them. But, as we can see from the news coverage that has nothing to do with it.
Let’s see here…
opens the Telegraph.
chimes in the Daily Mail, not adding “It’s PC GORN MAAAD” only because it’s dogwhistling so hard that it’s well trained readership doesn’t need to actually read the words any more.
Quoted in the Guardian, Dr Sentamu said
Unfortunately, he explained neither how “heritage” was responsible for such things, what he actually meant by heritage, nor quite how an endorsement of the nationalist symbols of one part of the British isles could tamp down extremism or division, but I’m sure he thought about putting in the speech and just ran out of time.
He went on to say
but condemned the actions of protestors, reminding us all once again that if you’re rude to the people who run the country, no matter how much you may disagree with public policy or feel that a given war is immoral, you don’t really have any business calling yourself British. This is especially true if you’re a Muslim, since everyone knows Muslim values contradict British ones.
On the other hand, think tank Ekklesia put out a press release saying
and further
Helpfully, no newspapers mentioned this kind of thing, because it would have just confused the message.
As keen as I am on reducing working hours, I think wrapping such moves in ham-fisted nationalism and wooly-mindedness about ill-defined concepts like “heritage” and “values” that’s easily co-opted by illiberal types on the right and left is a poor strategy for getting there.
This seems like a good idea to me but I really think it should be a veterans day. After all the world wars are fading out of living memory and the new persian gulf wars are taking a toll. Why not have celebrate our heroes properly rather than have tacky tabloid backed fund raisers. It would certainly be a good reason for a celebration and a well deserved thankyou.
ladytizzy: Tell me about it, preview or an edit facility would be a godsend!
Brennig: There are as suggested more than enough good arguments against various saints whether relevance today or the historical accuracy of the details. The problem with replacing them is who would choose? I shudder to think what a dog’s breakfast politicians would create in dreaming up some new day(s)
McDuff: Somerset Maugham wrote that fact was a poor storyteller. Having read my own remarks I know perfectly well I never said only capitalist activity has value. I stated the plain fact that paid (and even unpaid in some circumstances) holidays cost money which must be found through taxes or reduced company profits (or potentially losses). In a time of major economic contraction, job losses, businesses struggling to survive, mushrooming government debt and imminent tax rises you can’t just ignore the costs of new holidays. Of course giving more holidays, like anything perceived to be free, is popular politics but then it always takes more political courage to say no.
Thanks for all the interesting and detailed responses. I think it fair to say that a consensus has not emerged! Having read your comments, I am rather drawn to the suggestion of IanVisits that we need ‘an independent study into the holiday system which would look at whether the current allocation is sufficient, and if the way they are spread out through the year is sensible’.
The two elements mentioned by IanVisits strike me as particularly apt. The first is whether or not there are too few, or too many, public holidays. As Croft mentions, there is a cost to establishing a new holiday. Conversely, it can be argued that there is a cost to having too few holidays. I gather there is research showing that the longer people are required to work, the less productive they become. Having some more holidays may add to well-being and productiveness.
The second element is, if we do have an additional holiday (or review existing holidays), when should it be held and what should it celebrate? I take the point that there is no public holiday between late August and Christmas. IanVisits favours one in late November. James Clarke suggests a Veterans’ Day. Others don’t suggest what to celebrate but rather indicate what not to celebrate (St George, other saints). I would be interested to read other readers’ comments. Should we have another holiday and if so when (and for what)? Should we review the existing spread of holidays?
There is also a third point which is raised by ladytizzy and that is how employment law relates to holidays. Should we provide more statutory rights for workers in respect of public holidays? Clearly, many people have to work on public holidays (emergency services, certain public services, some shops) but to what extent should employers be able to require them to work?
Croft
You didn’t use those exact words, it’s true. But you keep reiterating the point which is that holidays must always be considered a cost and this cost must be got from somewhere. But working, too, is a cost to society, and this cost must be paid for. All work and no play makes Jack into the United States of America, working itself into the ground so it can afford the repayments on debts it’s accumulated to purchase widgets and geegaws.
You beg the question by assuming that the current balance of productivity to leisure time is the best one, or that the only improvement in welfare could be found through increased money – i.e. productivity. This is not necessarily the case. I am a fan of shiny toys and new inventions, and am I not a fan nor a romanticiser of poverty, but I do feel that as a society we could afford to be a little bit less productive of things that produce money and a little bit more productive of things that produce happiness.
But then, I also think that’s not a lot to do with working time per se as it is simply to do with attitudes. Obviously the one ties into the other, but there is inherent value in working to live rather than living to work. Living in this country is expensive. Perhaps if it was cheaper to enjoy the simple pleasures in life we wouldn’t need to create multi-trillion-pound derivative markets to enrich the top 0.1% and end up putting 10% of the population on an “enforced holiday” of unemployment. If a family could live comfortably on the average wage of a single person working a 30 hour week, I daresay there’d be a lot more happy and healthy people around.
Which is moving off the concept of “holidays” somewhat but is important to address your point. Working less has its own advantages, even if it reduces the amount of money washing around.
lordnorton: I can’t see any issue with looking into the both the hard numbers and doing a proper cost/benefit analysis. I suspect that ‘the point that there is no public holiday between late August and Christmas’ may be a sunny day in June is worth any number of wet Wednesdays in November!
A statutory provision is at once very simple and alarmingly tricky. I’m not sure many people would want to be told they had to take a holiday on a particular day (out of their allocation) though some business might prefer the certainly of a mandatory holiday over having to allow an unknown number of staff off – on a right to take a bank holiday on request system. As anyone who has urgent work to finish knows poets day can already be a thorough nuisance with some individuals who are very hard to contact.
McDuff: I fear most of your issues and concerns are the nature of the capitalist system and society as a whole and rather outside the remedy of an extra bank holiday at any point in the year!