Clearing out an old box from the attic the other day I came across a dog eared document too damaged alas, to photograph for this site.
It was my very own ID card from 1940 when I was a little over a year old. Maybe I got it for my first birthday. Did I wave it over the side of my pram shouting “I exist – look; this proves I’ve arrived!” Or did I just mutter “Cogito ergo sum” before taking another suck on my thumb!?
It makes interesting reading. Above the space for your address it says in big black print “DO NOTHING WITH THIS PART UNTIL YOU ARE TOLD” Who was to tell me I ask? On the other side it says “You may need it under conditions of national emergency for important purposes”! No indication of what they might be!
In fact I knew the REALLY important purpose – you couldn’t get your sweet ration without it! You don’t get anything more important than that when you’re a kid!
ID cards stayed with us until some time in the 1950’s when the last of the rationing went.
Perhaps I will ask the Home secretary if I can trade it in for one of the new shiny plastic ones!
I’m not sure if this is just an interesting historical footnote or
an attempt to equate the ID cards of yesteryear to the current proposed
monstrosity.
It’s not the physical card that is so scary, it’s the database behind
it. It is an overreaching attempt by government to give huge numbers of
people access to our personal data under the fig leaf of protecting us
from terrorism or somehow guarding our identity. It will do neither,
and it will cost a huge sum of money as well as increase the states
intrusion into our personal lives.
In WWII the ID card served the purpose of being a official piece of
paper issued to residents of the UK. The idea being that should a
German spy parachute in he would become quickly unstuck if he didn’t
have the right bits of paper on him as he travelled around the
country. And as the noble Lord has pointed out it was part of the
machinery of ration distribution. Neither of these uses are relevant
today.
Of course the Home Secretary would like you to believe that a bunch of bearded nutters in a cave in Pakistan are as big a threat to Britain as Nazi Germany was.
During the debates in our Parliament on the introduction of ID cards it was mentioned that, “ the Constitutional significance of the Identity Card Bill, is that it adjusts the fundamental relationship between the individual and the State”. The people were not told this of course! They believe that as long as they have nothing to hide, there is nothing to be afraid about. They Say “I don’t mind having an ID card, Why should I, I have nothing to be afraid of”. People from my age group say, “We had ID cards in the last war, why shouldn’t we have one now”? Those ID cards were nothing like the ones that are proposed now. They were simply a card, which contained name and number, a number that I remember today. If those details were kept on a kind of Data Base, the information was kept in this Country, it was not flashed round the world electronically. These compulsory ID Cards were FREE as any government compulsory document should be.
How does having an ID card adjust the fundamental relationship between the individual and the State? The Earl of Northesk explained in the House of Lords debate on the 21st March 2005. “It transfers “ownership” of our identities from our own hands into those of the State. It also has to be remembered that if we eventually ratify the Treaty of Lisbon, then we transfer permanently that authority over our identities to the European Union. Whether through the EU Treaty or another way, a way will indeed be found. The EU Constitution is not DEAD. The Euro is not DEAD, and neither is the ID Card issue because the EU wants, needs and must have its EU Citizens.
The Bill makes clear that we will have to pay for the card, yet having paid for it, the ID Cards remains the property of the State. (We therefore must not deface the cards, or maybe that will be yet another crime) We are also expected to notify any small changes, name, house change etc and to pay for the alteration too. I am bothered that religion may be included on the card, this for memories of a past war and the atrocities that happened then, and please do not tell me that it could not happen again because history has a nasty way of repeating itself every now and then.
I have had one ID Card, I still have it, I will use that card if need be and as it ‘did for me’ through the vile bombing in that war-and yes, our family was bombed out twice–and that was indeed terrorism- it will do for ‘peace time’.
Dear Lord Soley,
ID cards as a security measure are silly. Any terrorist organisation or enemy of the UK will have an effective countermeasure and its just another money spinner for identity theft. The only thing it could possibly cut is credit card fraud, if you had to produce your ID in conjuction with the creditcard.
So why does the government continue to advertise this foolish notion? when if they had just advertised it as an NHS entitlement card or National insurance card everyone would have been much happier about it. As it stands I hate the idea. Especially considering ther is no cast iron promise or law that protects my details.
How long would it be before some call centre in India was leafing through my tax/medical/dvla files? Under the data protection act there is a nice big loophole that means that people in India can see any details that a big corporation or the government chooses to send to the call centres there or anywhere for that matter. Close up these loopholes and there may be more confidence in ID cards. It will also create work in the UK!
Did you know that this ID ‘number’ became your NHS card number? This was superseded only when the NHS became computerised.
I think opposition to ID cards would evaporate if we all got free sweets.
Clive, what is the point of this post ?
Most people who read this blog will be refusing to get an ID Card, as they are a complete waste of time, so what is the purpose of this post?
As someone who works for an MP, we are doing a survey to constituents on this very issue at the moment. I have to say that we haven’t yet had a single person return the survey who opposes ID cards!
Dear Lord Soley
I’m sure the Home Secretary would be happy to accommodate your request.
Although, as a foreign national, I was told that I must now provide biometric data to accompany my skilled migrant application. No problem, I said. I’ve been to America, I have no problem with eye scans. In fact, it makes me feel that my life has taken a slight 007-esque twist
Unfortunately, nobody in the Home Office was able to direct me where said exercise is to be undertaken.
If I find out, I’ll let you know.
Kind regards,
Lily
Why should I take any notice of what is posted on this blog?
The House of Lords has no democratic accountabilty, a throw back. Time to get rid of it.
Perhaps, Mike, because it’s much more of a valuable asset than an elected chamber. While it may not have democratic accountability as such, I don’t see its powers as being large enough to require it to be democratically elected. Plus, I think the chances are that an elected chamber would be a carbon copy of the Commons – which would just be pointless.
You might wish to read this: http://www.totalpolitics.com/magazine_detail.php?id=148. I think it sums up my views more eloquently than I ever could. I’d be interested to hear your response to it.
Rereading it, my post sounds quite aggressive – it isn’t meant to be, I assure you!
It’s an interesting historical footnote NOT an argument justifying ID cards! I wouldn’t use a war time ID card that got me sweets as a kid to justify modern ID cards. The arguments are different. It doesn’t make either of them right or wrong.
I don’t have a big problem with ID cards. As one of the comments above says, most people are supportive. I think people do see them as convenient and also a safeguard although it is not always clear to me what they think they are a safeguard against! Many years ago I would have expressed much more concern but then I discovered that almost all other democracies have them and they haven’t turned into police states.
I think the key issues are:
1. Who is allowed access?
2. What information is on them?
3. Are you obliged to carry them at all times?
The answer to the last question is ‘no’ and that for me is important.
I think they are only marginally useful against terrorism but I think they will be very useful in dealing with illegal immigration and employers who knowingly employ illegal immigrants and often exploit them.
In a democracy with the rule of law and protection for human rights there are safeguards against abuse.
“3. Are you obliged to carry them at all times?
The answer to the last question is ‘no’ and that for me is important. ”
No, the most important question is ‘Are you allowed to refuse them altogether?’ as we were PROMISED that they would NOT be compulsory.
Don’t try this pathetic and facile shilly-shallying equivocation.
It is ME who will decide whether I carry an ID Card NOT YOU and don’t you EVER EVER EVER forget it – You will NEVER impose this on me, as I did not vote for it, I don’t support, I don’t give my consent to it, and I will NEVER give up my right to self-determination of who gets to see my personal data. So don’t ever think you have the right to take that decision out of my hands.
You are in Parliament as my AGENT and SERVANT and I will not be bowing down to your will any time soon.
To Anonymous, it is not the ID card as such, it is the DATA BASE and its contents and who will have access to all that information. The cost once again to the gullible people of this Country. The people, actually the old people are the ones that sacrificed so much of their youth, fighting and yes, even dying for the freedom we had until we joined the EEC in 1972 and to those that actually want what it is becoming ‘today’.
Being watched everywhere we go, all our details checked when we come and go out of what is casually called a free country is not what those people died for.
Lord Soley,
Thanks for clarifying you weren’t trying to justify the current ID
cards based on the WWII era ones. However to adress your first two
points:
1. Who is allowed access?
The provisions are pretty broad. The security of the information
reduces for every additional person that has access. You just have to
look at the leaking of the details of “Joe the Plumber” in the US or
ask the security services how many people they fire every year for
inappropriate uses of much smaller databases. With the size and scope
of database and access being suggested this problems are massively
multiplied.
2. What information is on them?
A lot of information. And a great desire by government to link more
and more data together. A national ID effectively makes a universal
key that enables data mining of an unprecedented nature.
Alex. The information on them is pretty limited – name, address, date and place of birth. There has to be a biometric measure too. If a government wanted to put on additional information then another Act of Parliament would be required.
Over 20 other EU states have ID cards already. I think I am right in saying that Sweden puts on medical information and certainly they have a system where you carry a card that gives such details and the Swedes I’ve spoken to seem to see that as useful. I am NOT advocating that as it is not proposed as part of the ID card here.
Bedd Gelert, Your views will carry more weight if you structure them in a less abusive way.
@ Lord Clive
ID Cards = bad
Privacy = good
Sweets = nice but bad
ID Card info that you may enjoy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_ID_card
http://www.no2id.net/IDSchemes/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_to_be_contained_on_the_National_Identity_Register
@ Anonymous surveyor
If privacy is such a non-issue why do you hide behind a anonymous posting nym?
About your poll, if the questions are couched in misleading terms such as “would you like an ID Card as it will defeat terrorism?” then you won’t find many objections. However, properly conducted polls show that support for ID Cards and the National Identity Register has plummeted as citizens realise that it’s much more than a simple photo card from the library or local video shop. Here are some useful tips:
http://www.no2id.net/news/pressRelease/release.php?name=Poll_public_2-to-1_against
Good luck, you’ll need it.
To Anonymous.”As someone who works for an MP, we are doing a survey to constituents on this very issue at the moment. I have to say that we haven’t yet had a single person return the survey who opposes ID cards!” Please send a survey to me and I will gladly return the survey opposing ID cards and what is more i can send a long list of names of those that also oppose ID cards.
@ Lord Clive
My comment with details of what will be included on the NIC/NIR seems to have been “disappeared”.