Like everybody else I was disappointed that the new Thameslink carriages will be made in Germany and not in Derby. This decision seemed contrary to our ambition to balance the economy more in the direction of manufacturing and less in financial services. After all, look at the success of rescuing Rolls Royce, which is now a cornerstone of British manufacturing and the aero engine industry.
The culprits were said to be the last Labour government for making the bidding process too open, the European Commission for insisting on open bidding and on our bureaucrats for “gold plating” EU rules. The quality and reliability of the carriages hardly entered into it.
The real reason of course, is that we don’t have a consistent policy on supporting manufacturing. There are random interventions but these just make for uncertainty.
Our future prosperity depends on our infrastructure, both physical and intellectual and this is where government’s should intervene. Our national capacity and will to design and build the railway track is what is crucial. It took 25 years to build HS1 because Margaret Thatcher ruled that it could only be done by the private sector. In France the equivalent line was completed 15 years ago with government intervention. So the decision to give the contract for the carriages to Germany was probably right. But let’s ensure that we get the infrastructure that we need and let’s not make the same mistake with power, water, broadband or even HS2. This is where support from the tax payers should be.
“So the decision to give the contract for the carriages to Germany was probably right.”
As, presumably, was the decision to go ahead with the £4.5bn deal to build new rail carriages in Co Durham. (Thameslink was worth £1.5bn)
http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2011/03/02/500-train-building-jobs-to-be-created-in-durham-61634-28262326/
Thanks for this. I don’t think that this deal has been finalised, but it does confirm the inconsistency in government aid to manufacturing.
It strikes me that awards of major contracts are far less due to inconsistencies than hard politics. By referencing Mrs Thatcher’s decree on HS1 and comparing its result with other nations interventionist policies you appear to be similarly minded.
If one accepts that politics, within and without the UK, is pivotal then details such as what fabric a carriage seat should have is, forgive the pun, immaterial.
What inconsistencies do you believe could be ironed out that would not fall foul of trade agreements and political will?
The inconsistencies are caused by politics. Politicians flip flop all over the place. These would be ironed out and would not fall foul of trade agreements and political will if left to the Technology Strategy Board.
We’ve had government trying to control things for ages and we’ve ended up in a mess.
You’ve regularly gone and imposed restrictions and costs where it’s industry that pays the cost.
The end result is that they have gone bust or walked away.
There are now massive government debts in the UK, and its a ponzi. You need to penalise those that make the money to keep the fraud going.
It’s not going to change until government gets out of business.
Lord Haskel, should, would, the Technology Strategy Board have intervened given Bombardier is “…a branch office backwater of a major multinational”*?
* http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/11/decline-britains-train-manufacturing-industry?INTCMP=SRCH
Our consecutive governments have not been at all clever when it comes to backing UK business efforts.
Instead of doing the leg work and the in depth research to find out how and why Germany, Japan and elsewhere is able to produce such extraordinary machines and sell them world wide, we have taken the nincompoop stance and pretended it’s the British worker who is unworthy.
Its not the worker but the environment and attitude of the country and its leaders that are the block to us leading the field in so many contracts that would elevate this countries wealth.
Take a look at how the Japanese can fix road damage in six days when it takes us years to accomplish the same task. What is the difference people?
http://www.japan.org/archives/1014
Until you face these facts we shall continue in decline.
You may be right, but it is consistency of policy that will help industry.
@Lord Haskel:
There is no point to consistent mistaken attitudes or wrong footing. And we have suffered this for decades.
See my reply to ladytizzi above.
There is a hugely run-away and urgent Lifesupports-Destruction & Extinction Disaster-In-Progress,
of already needing nearly two Earths-worth of resources, and by 2050 will need at least three Earths-worth, just to maintain the “standard-of-living-to-which-the-Rich-of-the-First-World-have-become-accustomed”.
Therefore I think that Government should NOT be spending taxpayer money until that Huge-Issue has been win-win-win-win-win-win-win RESOLVED (for the benefit of All Peoples and also for All-Lifesupports both living(food) and non-living(fuel & strategic-commodities).
1135T12July2011.JSDM.
It would take a long time to solve the sustainability problem. Meanwhile life has to go on.
Onward, onward drove the 800 into the mire of debt.
ONS put another trillion on the UK debt figures the other day. What happened to the Lords oversight of government there? How did you manage to miss a trillion? Aren’t you supposed to be experts?
Then when you dig a little deeper, there are alsorts of things missing off the debts. For example, the government doesn’t owe anyone a state pension.
PS. The reason the state pension isn’t there is that they don’t intend to honour the promise.
@LB: Governments have been fiddling the pension liability for years. They passed the practice on to corporations via Bob Maxwell and co. Now it is a regular scam to take the fund and run, an expectation rather than seen as fraud.
What Thatcher thought about this fraudulent practice in 2000.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk_politics/2000/conferences/conservatives/954245.stm
And the married woman’s NI reduced rate. Another government hit and run.
A grandmother in my family gets about ten pounds per week as she opted out as a married woman. The fiddle is, she was assured the full amount was taken from her husband to cover the balance?
http://www.yours.co.uk/Money/Search-Results/Finance/Search-Results/Pensions/Pension-shock-for-women/
If she paid in the full amount via her husband she should set about claiming it. The CAB might help.
Lord Blagger
Accounting conventions change with the times. Pensions weren’t in because this week’s PAYE pays next week’s pensions. Proper pension funds have a capital sum.
So what about the improper pension ‘funds’?
Lets start with the biggest. The state pension. There is no fund unless you count 5 months worth of payouts, in the form of a government IOU to the government. So 5 months in, it would be bust.
There is no accounting convention for this liability when it comes to government. It’s not on the books. However, the debt is still there. People have paid money for their pension, and the government won’t put that down as a liability.
The conclusion is that there is no intention of paying it.
So for the Lords, why hasn’t your oversight of the commons made sure that the books are not cooked? That’s a fail from the Lords.
Now for the actual size. You can get out of the DWP the distribution of people with state pension entitlements (more evidence its a debt). Age, Sex, number of accrued years and the number of people falling into that category. Using CPI as the growth in the liability, you can present value the cost of these pensions. The figure as of 2 years ago came to 2,400,000,000,000 pounds. The number increases with inflation. 2.4 trillion or nearly two and half times the borrowing.
That ignores the state second pension – not a proper pension because that’s unfunded.
What about the civil service pension – unfunded too
(Spot the pattern. Debts all hidden off the books)
Even the other public sector funds which have funds, the question there is does fully funded mean that they have funds that match the liabilities or is there a black hole? The answer is, that invariably there is a black hole.
Add up the debts, and its 6.8 trillion against a government income rounded up at 0.6 trillion.
It’s bust. It’s just as bust as Greece. Even the deficit of 10.4% in the UK is just under Greeces at 10.5%.
Meanwhile, all the politicians can talk about is there little political games over Murdoch.
Burn the Witch
Where’s McCarthy when we need him most.
Lets have 2 minutes of hate
…
@Lord Haskel:
Thank you for that guidance, how kind of you to take the time to write it. I shall tell her to look into it.
Its a great shame that the coalition govt have had their hands tied behind their backs by the previous Labour govt on the Thameslink programme. I do hope that the Bombardier train factory stays in Derby. It is intersting to note that manufacturing went down post 1997 and has gone up since the new govt of 2010.
Yes, but not back to where it was. It also depends on what you call manufacturing. The line between manufacturing and services has now become so blurred that I think the distinction is misleading.
@Toryboy:
Bombardier is a Canadian company, so, not truly British is it? Germany is at least European. Canada is simply North America.
http://www.bombardier.com/
The answer is for the British to apply to Germany for jobs with the company. And for the UK government, in a trade contract, to insist the British workers are used in manufacture as a way to encourage European goodwill.
Which brings me to: We all hear that the Polish are great at their various skills and that they know how to do business cleverly as well. Which from my own experience is true.
Then why not send our young people to learn the trades in Poland. That way they will have the same skills and work ethic as those we import. Instead of trying to beat them, join them.
Use your loaf.
I think we can do better by training people here to an even better standard than they do in Poland.
With what? The money has gone. There is just debt left.
We need to make migration an economic test. Do you pay (per migrant) more than the average government spend per person. If so, and for as long as that goes on, you can stay. No recourse to public funds (because it would break the first bit)
No racism at all in this. Very simple to administer. Tax form at the end of the year, with a yes or no.
Having signed up to the single market EU citizens are free to come and go as they wish.
@Lord Haskel:
Have you tried a Polish worker for your own use lately?
Because what you replied here is frankly a nonsense.
Polish workers come on call, give you an immediate quote and stick to it. They send in the guys in a rota system, starting with the basic necessities. The plumbers, electricians and carpenters are well skilled, no nonsense and begin at 8am finishing at 6pm. They are clean, efficient and superior workers and, like the Japanese, they do it with speed. When they leave they clean up and don’t hike the price to double the original fee. And they are gracious as they work. Even when you change the starting spec.
What it takes a British firm a month to do the Polish do in a fortnight. And if it takes more time than they estimated, they do not ring the till into an increase in invoice. They accept their error with grace rather than spitting at you.
On top of that, they are able to speak their own language as well as English. Their sons, who they usually bring with them to learn the trade, will tell you that they have to laugh at the British school system as at home they vastly past what they teach their age group. The difference is remarkable. And more than that, they expect to have to work and want to do it. Not so with so many of our kids who appear to resent the idea they have to make a living.
Unless you will examine these facts, and accept we do not have it right, then, and only then, will change take place for the better.
And what is wrong with a stint in Poland? Broaden the horizons of so many here who are incapable of anything other than feeling the only job they will ever be able to get is in a burger joint loading french fries, or stacking shelves at supermarkets on minimum wage payments. You think that is better than what Poland has to offer? I don’t.
Nothing wrong with a stint in Poland. I was on a visit there myself a couple of years ago and asked why there were so many good craftsmen. I was told that it was a hang over from the communist era when everybody had to learn a skilled trade and things like media studies didn’t count. This still doesn’t explain their reliability and commitment. Perhaps it is that the more reliable and committed people are the ones that come to the UK.
Having signed up to the single market EU citizens are free to come and go as they wish.
===========
And the consequences of that free movement in labour is that we have vast numbers sitting on their arses watching Jeremy Kyle repeats.
We have people in Westminister, on 104,000 a year in housing benefit, plus other benefits on top.
You’re a politician. You are responsible for that.
laddytizzi
I don’t think you can describe a facility that builds rather good trains as a branch office backwater.
I don’t think I did.