On 26th March, I asked a question: “What steps will HMG take to ensure that fellow signatories to the Terezin Declaration on Holocaust Era Assets fulfil the obligations of the Declaration in relation to the restitution of wrongfully seized property?” It was scheduled as “dinner break business”, which means that one gets an hour on a different topic while those who may have been engaged in bill business for most of the day go off and have their dinner. But the Scotland Bill amendment about discriminatory tuition fees charged by the Scots universities to English students took so long that by the time my hour came, Lord Janner had had to leave. So I reproduce his speech below.
My own comments were largely about Poland, the only major European and postcommunist country which has no legislation to deal with the property seized by the Nazis and the Communists. TheAustrian compensation scheme is regarded as best practice in this field – http://en.nationalfonds.org.
This is what Lord Janner planned to say:
“My Lords, in July 2009, I brought into the Lords, a bill for the Restoration of Looted Art, and it was supported from all sides of the House – and I thank the Honourable Lady – my dear friend, Baroness Deech – for bringing this vital question to the Lords, this evening.
I wish to declare my sad interest. My entire family, who had remained in Latvia and in Lithuania, were all murdered by the Nazis, and they had all their possessions stolen by their killers. So – sadly – I understand, very well, the need for survivors and their descendants to be able to reclaim at least some of what they had lost and had stolen from them.
In 2009, as Chairman of the Holocaust Educational Trust, I joined our previous Government’s delegation at the Holocaust Era Assets Conference in Prague, for the signing of the Terezin Declaration. It was attended by 47 nations. It was a conference that underlined the urgent need for a restitution of a range of assets, for families of victims of the Holocaust – a process which began with the Nazi Gold Conference, here in London, in 1997, hosted by Robin Cook, who was then our Shadow Foreign Minister.
Now – three years later – we must ensure that this vital testimony is being compiled and fulfilled. Sadly, we recognise that there is a rise in Anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial in too many parts of Europe. The Terezin Declaration spoke of the moral duty of all Nations. Lord Howarth, on 8th of May 2000, addressed the House of Lords, and said;
“The Government are determined to set an example of how a civilised society should conduct itself in making possible redress for historic wrongs committed during the Nazi era…”—[ Official Report, 8 May 2000; Vol. 349, c. 491.]
So, I now ask our Government, to continue to show our determination and to instruct countries of their responsibility to ensure that survivors, families and all those victimised will receive, what is rightfully theirs.
This urgent issue must be discussed and followed up – as the brutality of the Holocaust ended in 1945, some 67 years ago. Over the past 15 years, representatives from these countries have met together to discuss Holocaust Assets. And even then, only a part of the confiscated property has been recovered, or, compensated.
Justice has no deadline – and we must thrive to promise that all the nations who signed the Terezin Declaration, in 2009, are ethically bound to return the stolen or lost property, to those individuals and families, who suffered from the Holocaust.
We must all join together in these efforts to seek restitution.”
In reply the Minister said that the UK would indeed do all it could at the next Terezin Declaration follow up conference later this year.
And, incredibly, Lord Pearson’s amendment to ensure that students from all parts of the UK are treated equally by Scottish universities in relation to fees was lost.
Perhaps the return of such assets should be made conditional on Israel doing the same with the assets it seized.
“I brought into the Lords, a bill for the Restoration of Looted Art”
Or more to the point still, lord blagger not allowing an act through parliament sponsored by Lord Newport, for renewed permission to trade in looted art from Baghdad, on the London auction markets.
The wholesale pillage of the Art history of the Muslim people, their cradle and spiritual home of Baghdad, 2003. Oh! yes ! now it is Mecca and Jeddah! But then? But then?!!!
Nobody bats an eyelid while permission is granted and renewed.
I was expecting this. First, don’t confuse Israel with Jews, e.g the 3 million Polish ones killed by the Nazis. Second, Israel took in 800,000 Jewish refugees from Arab countries who were evicted from their homes in those countries at around the same time that a similar number of Arabs fled Israel, so that is even. Third, if the Palestinian question could be solved simply by paying token compensation for lost homes, it would have been solved decades ago. If only!
Well, it’s because Israel has an expansionist and racist policy, and the west backs it.
Israeli population is 20% Arab, with full civic rights. I gather that Palestine, when established, will be “Judenfrei”; as is Saudi Arabia, where no nonMuslim religious services are allowed and no Jews. So who is racist?
Israel.
There are different rights for a Jewish Israeli compared to an Arab Israeli when it comes to marriage.
I notice that you’re using the Yorkshire ripper defense. It goes like this.
Jack the ripper wasn’t caught and prosecuted so you can’t prosecute me.
ie. Since when was criminal actions by one group justification for your own criminal actions?
ie. Should peers prosecuted for fraud have said look, others are getting away with it, you can’t prosecute me. Oh yes – they did use that defense too.
I was expecting this.
First, don’t confuse Israel with Jews,
Well would you believe it!!!!
e.g the 3 million Polish ones killed by the Nazis.
after the event.
Israel took in 800,000 Jewish refugees from Arab countries who were evicted from their homes in those countries at around the same
They left the ghettoes/Jewish quarters of all those Arab countries of their own accord to go the promised land. Those Jewish quarters are still ‘caretaked’ by Jewish guardians, much empty and unused, 60 years later. They were certainly not evicted. They went, the way the Wandering and nomadic Jew always did! The Wandering tribes of Israel.
I might add that if the Jewish nation wandered again in the same way to Khazakstan (and Astana its new capital)
which was itself once a sovereign Jewish state, we would have a marvellous new dimension both to Central asian politics and to Middle eastern ones.
The state of Khazakstan is the most mineral rich country in the world, all waiting, faute de mieux, to be exploited.
Perhaps instad of arguing over desert conditions in Palestine they could all go discuss steppe possibilities in khaza they would be doing the world a GREAT favour, which they certainly are not doing now, least of all to the downtrodden and oppressed Native Palestinian.
[I may say as an aside that the “nomadic neurones” and “synapses” of the tavellers in this part of Dorset always amaze me, how they suddenly decide they have got to move their camp sites, when in fact they could comfortably stay there for eternity. No persuasion has any effect; they just go, and move on, the excitement of travel, satisfied in most people today by their summer vacation to the big wide world. The nomadic
gene assuaged!
3 poignant points:
1) Many more people were “dispossessed”, and not only in countries occupied by the Nazid and later by the Soviet Communists, of their physiological, emotional, mind-functional, and spiritual health;
that ‘health’ is far more essential to the survival and thrival of our Human Race than are a few materialisticised financial “treasures”, noble lady.
2) Human Values-wise:
The three stages of (individual) human development are the Natural, the Individual, and the civilisationally Systematic. (Feldenkrais 1972):
but
“The general tendency toward social-improvement in our day has led directly to a disregard, rising to neglect, for the human material of which society is built. The fault lies…in the fact that individuals tend to identify their self-images with their value to society. Even if he has emancipated himself from his educators and protectors, man does not strive to make himself any different from the pattern impressed upon him from the outset”.
3) Subsequently, not only has unregulated Hedonism caused economics to become founded upon a blind Three-Earths-Destructive seriously-imbalanced and imbalancing ‘Economics’ equation;
but the onus of payment for ‘economic’-workplace-training is being increasingly placed upon individual-children and their parents –
it is the Employer-Body that should be paying for Schooling and University-training; not the prospective-worker nor their bio-social-parents.
—–
In short, the establishment of generic health-restoration & maintenance, and of longest-term sustainworthy wellbeing building,
is a far more neglected but essential Aim to be pursued and implemented, than is the mere further “bloating” of a few individuals’ “privately-financial-and-materialy-propertied” macrowealth,
Nazi-Thievery’s and Communist-Sharking’s criminal imbalancing being evident, certain, wrong, and civilisationally imbalancing;
but nevertheless being of comparitively very minor importance and urgency.
———-
It’s like the Elgin Marbles and the Olympic Games;
let them go back, permanently, and ‘collectively-owned’, to Greece;
not to any mere ‘private-individual’,
‘private-body’, or ‘private sovereign state’.
What are these items? How were they obtained in the first place? Do you know?
What about the rest of the suffering population at that time, and what happended to their stolen goods? It wasn’t only Jews who lived throught that hell and its robbery.
We are told 6 million Jews were horrifically murdered in the Hitler days of utter misery for us all. (My family had to live through the blitz, be called up when they didn’t want to, and so on many dies) But, there was also 6 millions others just as brutally murdered at that time. And the odd thing is, I never hear anything of those people. They were simply expendable and to be forgotten, except when they roll out the wheelchairs for Rememberance Day. Funny that. Now why do you think that is?
And today, we see Israel accused of many Nazi style practices which are said to be getting worse as I write.
You know what Judge Judy says in her court to the pleaders, ‘you always pay for a good deed done.’
The unfair part in all of this is, my mothers Jewish friend, who lived in NYC, used to get what she called her Hitler money, yet Mother had no recollection of any other people getting that stipend. Why is it Jewish people only seem interested in what they feel they are due and never what we ‘all’ are due for our collective suffering and sacrifice in those years.
My understanding is, no one really knows who owned what and when or even where they got said treasure from and how. And that museums now hold anything the Nazi’s grabbed, in order that today we can all benefit from their existence. And as we all fought hard, lived rough and starved to overcome that time of persecution, we all deserve to keep for our enjoyment in those museums what we are told was plunder.
To expect the people to pay a second time to obtain these items for ‘return’ is expecting us all to foot another tax bill, as we did when we fought that war. This is more than offensive is selfish in the extreme.
All Europeans suffered dreadfully and were abused in every way as a result of Hitler. Therefore, we all deserve compensation. And whilst we are at it, how much compensation is Israel going to pay the Palestinians for annexing their land? Have you made any moves to set up that kind of reparation board?
This issue is about real property, not cultural objects. Imagine, by way of analogy, someone dying in the 7/7 underground bomb, leaving an empty home, and the neighbours moved into it – for decades despite the deceased’s heirs’ protest. Many of the far fetched analogies on this page, including references to Nazis, fall within the European Union Monitoring Centre for Racism definition of antisemitism. Note that more Arabs have recently been killed by their fellow citizens and dictators than have Palestinians by Israel. Every lost life is a tragedy but there is general disregard unless blame can be attached to Israel.About 700,000 Arabs left Israel in 1948 and there are now 4.7million Palestinian descendants.
@BD:
http://www.european-forum-on-antisemitism.org/working-definition-of-antisemitism/english/
Above is what you raised as a condemnation of ‘bloggers’ (collective)and their thoughts on this thread. You placed this comment in answer to my post, without clarifying what you were suggesting is anitsemitic. You also remained vague as to whom you were accusing.
Please note, the last few lines of this EU directive, which tells us: ‘However, criticism of Israel, similar to that levied against any other country, cannot be regarded as antisemitic.’ All the bloggers on this thread would, I am sure, levy the same accusation toward any other country that is doing what Israel is shown to be doing with regard to Palestinians.
If you start a thread on an open blog asking for the thoughts of those reading that blog, then in your opening cite Nazi’s and other relatied issues to that regime, what kind of response did you expect? And when you feel the answers you receive do not coincide with what you want them to, surely as an intelligent, highly educated, adult woman you did not expect compliance with your thrust?
And as a side bar, your mention that ‘Arabs killed more Arabs than Israelis did’ is a strange comparison. Does that line mean Hitler was not so bad as he, like Israel with the Arabs, didn’t kill as many Russians as Stalin did? I fail to link the analogy here.
That aside, because I do not believe Israel is right in it’s dealing with the Palestinians, does not mean I am antiemitic. That is thinking of paranoid proportions. I don’t go along with Britain and the US in their various wars, doesn’t make me anti Christian.
BD: “First, don’t confuse Israel with Jews, e.g the 3 million Polish ones killed by the Nazis.”
Survivors may have been part of the ‘Aliyah Bet’ the code name given to illegal immigration by Jews to the British Mandate for Palestine in violation of the ‘White Paper of 1939’ during the years 1934-1948. So a little confusion must be expected?
In any practical sense possession is nine tenths of the law and passing a law is not going to change that. I’m surprised you said “First, don’t confuse Israel with Jews”. But that’s the whole point of Zionism. If Israeli politicians talk about Israel representing the ‘Jewish People’ then it would be entirely incumbent upon them to recover any looted art, seek compensation and so on, anywhere.
The Israeli view is that the Jewish universe is centred upon Israel; it is not and never will be. The reality is that there is no such thing as the ‘Jewish People’ but people who are Jewish; people who are proud to be citizens of their own countries and who pursue aims and objectives that are relevant to the needs of people who are Jewish.
There are far more claimants who were non-Jewish Poles whose property was seized under Communism and never returned. The Jewish survivors were very few. Some of them went back to Poland to find their homes, but many of them were chased away. Mostly we are dealing with the heirs of the 3m who were killed. Austria, Germany and other countries have a good compensation scheme, which paid out a token amount, without too much reliance on missing documents, and achieved closure thereby.
@BD:
The German and Austrian people have been convinced that they are the culprits of Hitler’s ferocious atrosity towards Jewish people. And so the idea of further compensation may come easier for them to absorb. However, I do wonder how many of those people, as individuals, have been asked about their compliance. And under what threats they live should they dare to speak out on the entire matter, one way or the other. I see it as a conspiracy of silence, for you never hear another point of view, and there must be one.
The people of the UK already paid whatever they felt was their duty in this matter. They stood up to and fought the Nazi’s, with the rest of Europe. The price for them was heavy indeed.
It’s time to look toward what is taking place ‘today’ against those who have little voice. The victims of the people who live, or are trying to live, on the edges of Israel must be the worlds priority.
Why are the West not bringing sanctions toward Israel for its actions in these matters? And why are we not discussing compensation for those people who are subjugated by Israel?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDKw0f95k7Q&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex0v5BDVFHk
And this is a man who is on, what I believe, is a sensible track with a beginning of a solution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LdaMIRI2As
“There are far more claimants who were non-Jewish Poles whose property was seized under Communism”
I agree, but the communist legacy would argue that property was seized under Bona Vacantia rules (property of the intestate belongs to the state). I don’t see a way forward unless Russia accepts liability for its legacy and treaties with Germany. If the heirs can prove testate then they would need very deep pockets indeed to fund legal action through the Russian courts.
Post war Germany has a case to bring against the communists in that they stripped bare East German assets such as machinery (by the way they are doing just the same in the UK right now). Europe could bring a case against France because Napoleon Bonaparte (the thief of Europe) stole property and art works to fund the building of Paris. India could bring a case against the UK for the Hindus who lost property after partition. The Palestinians could bring a case against Israel for property and land lost in 1948.
Austria and Germany have done the decent thing and have recognised responsibility for their legacy but the Russians – I don’t think so, not when so very many Russians died fighting the Germans.
Perhaps Israel should invade Russia, or have the Russians already invaded Israel?
Positively my final comment. Try looking on the internet to see the abuse and threats that face anyone who stands up for Israel. Try focussing on occupied Cyprus, Kashmir, Tibet etc. and ask why double standards apply. Two wrongs don’t make a right, but obsession with one above all others is sinister. There are those who just cannot bear the thought of a Jewish nation and its self defence against destruction.
@BD:
The obsession you refer to may be of your own making.
Perhaps double standards, as you put it, apply because Israel pretends to be something it isn’t, a country that pleads humanity toward its fellow man. It pretends it is European in its edict and attitude to the human race. The others you cite don’t play that game.
We expect more of Israel because it has always claimed difference to those it is surrounded by. It could be that it is loved rather than, as you claim, disliked. And to see it stoop to such horror is abhorant.
There is nothing fair in love and war.