EU – in or out?

Lord Soley

So the UK is now effectively sidelined from full membership of the EU and all with the (apparent) support of the Liberal Democrats. Extraordinary!

I shall return to the issue – this is the point at which the UK has to decide what sort of relationship it wants with Europe and with the wider world.

17 comments for “EU – in or out?

  1. Lord Blagger
    09/12/2011 at 8:52 am

    Of course Cameron isn’t going to sign up. Imagine having to cut 25% off government spending overnight because of the new fiscal rules. We can’t have that, who will pay our expenses complained MPs and Peers. We might lose out in such a deal.

    Proper scrutiny too. We all know what happened when there was a little bit of scrutiny over our payments. Disaster. Must be averted all costs.

    • maude elwes
      09/12/2011 at 10:04 pm


      My solution to this pproblem would be for the UK to commit, as in marriage, rather than play the fifty year lover, and settle into married life the way a strong and secure man would do.

      We all know a fairweather friend is the last cling on we need when we find ourselves in dire straits. Isn’t it?

      I read in the Independant today a woman whose views parallel mine closely. Its title is Britian must join the Euro – and cameron is the man to do it.


      But it appears our Mr Cameron has dropped the ball. And his dull and dated party are rubbing their hands in glee.

  2. Gareth Howell
    09/12/2011 at 9:02 am

    So what? Vince is earning a living! argghh!

  3. MilesJSD
    09/12/2011 at 9:25 am

    Thank you, Lord Soley:
    ” – this is the point at which the UK has to decide what sort of relationship it wants with Europe and with the wider world” –

    but excuse me, both Europe and the World are actually fast ‘narrowing’, not ‘widening’:

    hadn’t you noticed the increasing shortfall between the Earth’s Stock of Resources and the Global Economics Plan to increase consumption of that “wider world”‘s lifesupportive-resources from two (2) Earthsworth now, to three (3) Earthsworth by 2050 ? – just to maintgain the 2010 standard-of-human-living-on-Earth ?

    (Also have you not glimpsed just below, Baroness Deech’s ‘leaking-to-the-public’ of the ‘Secrecy’ thing and of the NHS’s ‘right to maintain the public in total ignorance, of ‘Risk’ factors hiding behind or within past and future Health and Social Care
    Legislation) ?
    So come, better now to join the new and growing number of British “minorities-of-one”
    you can begin this simply by buying for your own individual-defence and personal-improvement
    “Awareness Through Movement” (Moshe Feldenkrais)
    “How To Win Every Argument” (Madsen Pirie).
    And feel free to visit, and join your lone voice with other minorities-of-one on the new, non-profit and ultimately life-refreshing soon to be racing away with free-exchange of life-supporting and share-able, non-secret, news and know-how !

    http// as an existing non-profit citizens e-site will also be sprucing-up and (as the Aussies say) “coming good”.
    “Relationship with Europe and with The World”
    is, should be, or will be, very much like a marriage relationship, i.e. by both covenant and contract:
    you are not fit and ready to get married until you have mastered both your self-parts-relationship and your relationship with the Earth’s-Lifesupports’ Parts.
    (Check with
    “Anatomy of the Spirit” by Caroline Myss
    “Lifestreams” by David Boadella
    and Prof David Smith of Australian TV academia ‘Environmental Studies’ –
    (“)when the Earth’s lifesupport resources are trending irreversibly downwards, but GNPs continue to show them like the long-term Stockmarket to be trending ever upwards, some-one has to get the message through to the Economists that they at least have an equation wrong somewhere(“).
    The majority of Britons do not want a foreign-relationship; they do not need any foreign-language; they just want to go on understanding the whole of Life in English;

    so the UK’s People-Majority have thereby already voted with their ‘brains’ that it is up to Europeans and the Wider Foreigner World to toe the English-line; not the other way round#.

    The good Lord Soley nonetheless has a grasp of an important and urgent component of all-that and, reading between the lines, possibly of the under-lurking fact of the whole-human-race already being deeply ‘sidelined’, from fullest and healthiest participation in the Earth’s Dwindling Lifesupports

    isn’t this all true ?

  4. Chris K
    09/12/2011 at 11:49 am

    Oh no!

    Now there’s no choice but to give the public a say on our relationship with the European Union. Not before time.

    I bet the Whitehall elite, who consistently pursue the EU’s interest above our national one, are devastated this morning that the PM didn’t take their advice to just ‘go along with it’.

    As it’s Friday afternoon they’re probably already on their way to the pub to drown their sorrows and plot their next move to subvert the will of the people.

    Still, glad you’re on side Lord Soley. I look forward to you voting in favour of giving us a referendum at the next opportunity.

  5. Croft
    09/12/2011 at 1:26 pm

    “So the UK is now effectively sidelined from full membership of the EU and all with the (apparent) support of the Liberal Democrats. Extraordinary!”

    Either the UK has not been a ‘full’ member since the Euro/Schengen began or it is still a full member now. Since both the prior agreements allowed states to agree rules among themselves separate from the 27. The changes proposed – or rumoured – seem nothing more than the continuation of the same. Yes they might block vote in QMV but that was possible before today.

    Liberal Democrat support is interesting but not necessarily informative; the uk opt-outs were so mild that all but the evangelical federalists among them couldn’t object. It seems fairly obvious that a treaty of 27 was really only wanted by Germany; France and most other nations (mindful of referendums) wanted a minor 17 change. Getting Britain to veto suited France (and the electoral cycle) quite well for all the bluster.

    Frankly the whole summit has been another farce from start to finish. The Eurozone desperately needs the ECB to act as lender or last resort, the issuance of a proportion of all debt as Eurobonds (allowing some moral hazard to remain), fiscal transfers from those benefiting from the EZ to those suffering and finally growth and a overarching growth ethos across the EU institutions. Nothing in the summit proposals address these fundamental problems. More QMV and shared fiscal/tax policies will do nothing to stop the present crisis they are simply dusted down proposals designed to advance an EU state not economic solutions at all. Any effect they might have will take years to implement and decades to alter their debt/GDP ratio. Indeed they follow a familiar pattern: rewards for failure. It is the very same institutions/states that created the EZ on sand, allowed Greece to enter when it didn’t meet the rules and that broke/bent the debt/GDP rules to suit themselves. They who failed to foresee the crisis, produced any semblance of a coherent response over four years now believe more powers are the solution. This is the political equivalent of giving a struggling juggler several extra balls!

    Indeed the irony is that the UK (in terms of proposals to deepen the single market) arguably raised the only growth promoting proposal of the summit.

    • maude elwes
      12/12/2011 at 4:14 pm


      How can you trust in proven lunatic policies? The great Conservative leader adored by your party speaks on Europe.

      Now they are changing their tune. The l’enfant terrible walked out on our future in a huff.

      Now lets hear the view of the Conservatives on credit via the great leader truly adores?

      • maude elwes
        12/12/2011 at 6:02 pm


        Forgot to add how wonderful the Speaker used to look in his traditional dress. His manner, his graciousless, and the respect he receives is so different to the half dressed, vertically challenged, flopsy we have to put up with now.


      • Lord Blagger
        12/12/2011 at 6:19 pm

        OK. So if you think it is a good idea to participate in this latest EU scheme, please tell us how you would get the deficit down to 0.5% of GDP.

        That’s 7 bn, and the current deficit is 140 bn.

        What are you going to cut?

        Whom are you going to tax, and by how much?

        • maude elwes
          15/12/2011 at 7:26 pm


          I gave you what I thought a good move with VAT’s the way to do. Three years and we would be debt free across Europe. But you rejected that.

          So, lets pretend we are out of Europe. Where are you taking us? What will the outcome of your jaunt be? Will it change the Human Rights requirement? Will we be free of the debilitating influx of immigrants? Will we once again be the Britian the people of this nation are calling for?

          Tell us all about your view on the Britian you envisage for our future.

          And as a little, PS, quite off topic. Did you know all those ex MP’s who could not get voted in still hold passes to Parliament. Where they are allowed to Lobby their friends there, eat subsidized meals at our expense and buy the cheap booze. Take the relatives and friends to the restaurants and do whatver they like without doing any work for the paying public.

          These people have very, very thick skins. Rhino’s the lot of them. This bunch are too close for Democracy and for our comfort. An interfering body should be set up to clear this lot out of it. Once and for all.

  6. Dave H
    09/12/2011 at 4:57 pm

    Well done Cameron! I didn’t think he had it in him, but now perhaps the UK has a chance to take stock and implement policies that are in our best interests.

    Time to look at resurrecting our old trading links with the rest of the world that were shut down because of EU membership, because there’s a good chance that none of them are going to be in a position to buy much from anyone if they’re not careful.

  7. ladytizzy
    09/12/2011 at 6:14 pm

    It is difficult to accept that Mr Cameron’s red lines came as a surprise to anyone with a pulse. It follows that the results from this summit were contrived, either with Mr Cameron or without him. That he used his veto means, conveniently, no EU-wide treaty which in turn means no awkward national referendums.

  8. Senex
    09/12/2011 at 9:14 pm

    Yes! There does seems to be a gulf between us. Vive la Manche!

  9. Gareth Howell
    12/12/2011 at 7:25 am

    He hasn’t but listening to Newsnight gave the distinct impression that he gave the only intelligent decision that he could take.

    there’s a good chance that none of them are going to be in a position to buy much from anyone

    Like all the NZ lamb going to Iran in xchange for oil? No wonder we get such rubbish these days.

  10. Gareth Howell
    12/12/2011 at 7:01 pm

    Here is a little bit of good cheer for you, from a former MEP, just to remind you that Greece is not all sad, and that there is hope yet for us all.

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