Mario Monti
I’m watching events in Italy with some trepidation and on Thursday I’m going to see for myself how matters are unfolding in our little corner of it. The general rejoicing at Berlusconi’s departure won’t of course automatically bring in a government able to tackle the grievous structural problems and zero growth. Even putting in Mario Monti, a highly respected and brainy economist, as Prime Minister won’t help unless he can draw together the myriad warring factions of the centrist parties and keep the more outlandish ones from having too much influence. Whether he has the political nouse to engineer enough support for long enough is anybody’s guess.
It is all very well putting in a package of austerity measures but the Government’s capacity for implementing the measures may be limited. The black economy is so fundamental to every aspect of Italian life that paying taxes is regarded as fool’s game. PAYE and VAT are useful taxes in that respect but when the VAT goes up people adjust their spending and growth is stymied again. Reform of the welfare system is bitterly opposed by some parties and even quite modest pension reforms will be opposed. But these are not at the heart of Italy’s long decline.
Italy’s fundamental problems are patronage where meritocracy should be, rigid employment structure which excludes the young from jobs and campanilismo, the laudable devotion to home, locality and family which creates a cohesive society but reduces occupational mobility and open competition and favours the appointment of ‘who you know’ rather than the best person for the job. Universities are dying on their feet in the global market because now talented young Italians must go abroad for promotion while aged professors with lifetime tenure run their departments in ways to suit themselves. We have many Italian scientist friends whose careers have been blighted this past twenty years by the structural failures and even sadder, friends with one time great ambitions who now coast along as heads of departments, untouchable, unproductive, dispensing patronage to their favoured few. The private and public sector are similar in this respect. Any new Government will need determination to shift this culture if Italy is to be rescued from its woes.
Of course, the cynics among us would argue that putting in charge an economist who was part of the problem is not going to fix anything. He’s there because the EU top brass (soon to be downgraded to cheap plastic with the budget cuts) wants a leader who is likely to do as they want.
When I read through the opening to this thread I became irritated no end.
Here we have an intelligent, well educated woman telling us of all the problems they have in Italy and why that country cannot stand on their own two feet. Don’t muffle the laugh.
Yet, at the very same time, this lady cannot see the connection to what is happening right here in the UK. Or, feel she has any part in it’s occurrence.
Austerity is the claim that all should submit to. But, can anyone see where all this austerity is making a difference? And ‘who’ is gaining from these ‘austere’ packages? Have any of you thought it through? And why does it sound so much like past claims that if you squeeze the poor and reduce the middle classes spending ability, then it will be good for the country and all of us?… Who are these people who will benefit? What will these savings be spent on? When will the ruling and upper classes have to pay for the blight they have brought about? Why are the leaders who took us to this ruin not being punished for it and held accountable for their actions? And additionally, appear to be getting much richer as a result of it.
We are told in this opening, Italy’s problems are patronage rather than meritocracy. Now there is insight from one who dwells soundly in patronage within an entire farce of that same methodology. But is utterly blind to the fact of it.
http://lordsoftheblog.net/2011/11/13/a-new-italian-symphony/#respond
Read the paragraph beginning Italy’s fundamental problem is, and digest it.
The aim is to remove people from their families to find work. As to want to stay where you feel you belong doesn’t suit ‘Globalization’ and the aims of those in control of it. But, where are these people to move to? And what and where are these wonderful careers they will find as they search the world? Don’t forget that of course, with that wrench from home, en masse, comes the abandonment of family that will need their care and comfort, both ways.
They and by, ‘they,’ I mean those in our governments, want a world society where there are no roots, no connection to family, social cohesion or culture. What they seek is to smash all we hold dear.
And the joke here is, this lady has a second home in a place she adores. Yet, she believes that what she is backing won’t alter that little community and remove her comfort from it one iota. How blind can you be?
And when all this devastation comes about, and ‘they’ cannot help the situation, once it is found beyond salvation, they beg for more of your money for charity to help those ‘they’ have put in the position of needing ‘your’ assistance.
Take this disgusting call they have put out, via the propaganda machines, on giving to charity to help our warriors who return home from the war zones badly disabled from the Bush, Blair, Obama, Cameron wars. They need our extra charity to house them, care for them, and to help them get back on their feet. Yet, at the same time, this government of white hats or goody’s, tell us, ‘they’ don’t have the money already given by us, as it must be sent to aid those other countries who are doing far better than we are. The people of those country’s need it more than our men who ‘defend’ us.
Aid that goes to the world must not be used to help our soldiers, it must be ‘ring fenced’ and sent to the Maharaja’s of India, and the corrupt in Pakistan, as well as a rag bag of others, who have been plied with nuclear warheads at our cost.
This short clip is a good interpretation of what the politicians of the UK and Europe are doing on our behalf.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQzUsTFqtW0
If she insists on making personal attacks on courteous contributors to this message blog, she might have a little charity instead of gambling vast sums of money away on share options in the city, which fuels her anger.
The ONLY people EVER to profit on such city trading in the long run, are the commission men themselves who take their 2-10%. If they “churn”(artificial trades to increase commission) they make a good deal more.
My dad has seen rather more Italian governments come and go than I have.
He keeps telling me how sad it is that a country with such a high voter turnout ends up with some of the crummiest/corrupt/incompentent governments going.
Of course, in part, its down to their weird electoral system. But there must be more to it than that.
Even more sad is that, following Greece, yet another Brussels placeman looks set to take the helm. Having never been elected in his life he is now going to become Prime Minister of Italy.
No doubt his priority is going to be saving the Euro first and Italy second. Alas, doing both is going to prove impossible…
Well, that’s what happens when you replace the lecher Berlusconi, with the fool Monti. (Breakfast joke intended)
@LB:
The real issue of Berlosconi being replaced by Monti is far more dangerous than you appear to regard it.
Berlosconi was forced out by a group of technocrats under the auspices of ‘we will be able to bring the country into line with the expectations of the financial sector.’ And there was no vote and no question of consulting the Italian people. Democracy overruled by money markets. And, who are the people behind these financial requirements? Do you know?
It is a seriously ‘bad’ precedent to accept this, in a so called democratic nation and union, without so much as a wait a minute.
What these techno’s are going to do is unknown. They have given no idea of their proposals, except the old cry of austerity. And we know that those with money have no idea what austerity is, do they?
Do you beieve the Rothschild’s will know what it feels like to tighten the belt? Or, the Rockerfellas’ the Gates,’ the Buffet’s? No. It’s those like the war veteran couple who were so fearful of another freezing winter, they took their lives because of it.
Here is a man I like reading, writing on his thoughts for this policy. Its title says it all, Sir Humphrey will make a mess of it, Minister.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2061957/Eurozone-crisis-Sir-Humphrey-make-mess-Minister.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
And I like the bit at the bottom of this piece, titled, Americas Nuclear Melt Down.
Don’t pass it by.
I tried hard to enthuse about the Arab spring especially when our Clive waxed lyrical about new democracies and everything, but now that European first ministers are toppling, it puts it into perspective….. watch this space for the next one to go.
“There is a tide in the affairs of men, which taken at the flood leads on to fortune”
The other question, why has Burlosconi left office?
Quite simply really, there is no more money to steal.
Hmm
“Even putting in Mario Monti, a highly respected and brainy economist, as Prime Minister won’t help unless he can draw together the myriad warring factions of the centrist parties and keep the more outlandish ones from having too much influence”
I’m supposed to be impressed that they have a unelected leader.
Let’s try the little response-ability pre-discipline, of applying the three principles of good-=communication and homnest argumentation – I’ll kick it off by a preliminary ‘critique’ for each submission so far:
Baroness Murphy:
Good stuff; but help us to separate the worthy from the unworthy, the true-Italian from the Sin and the Phony: I suggest you ask Hansard and WordPress to advance LotB into graphics, such as the ‘pie-chart’ –
“a picture is worth a thousand words” – huge time-saver; terrific new democratic-citizenship-educational, participative-response enabler.
Dave H: Good paintball-sniping: but hasn’t the term “economist” much worse become synonymous with the equation:
LHS SUPPLY 1 (one)Earth =
RHS DEMAND for 2 (two) Earthsworth of (Lifesupports + Hedonisms + Throwaways + Creature-Comforts(Drugs, Pipe-dreams, Pubs, Punch-ups, Procrusteanly-pared-back Protest-Appeals) ?
(Maude Elwes: Your poignant video allegory of the British Bulldog, whilst performing an evolutionary quantum-leap onto and off-of a Human’s skateboard, but being the butt for spectator-laughter, is a very serious wake-up call deserving a serious appreciation and prix- d’estime: later if space permits. Thank you.)
Chris K: Your personal and family life-experience comes as an illuminating ray, through the insidiously and deliberately darkened denizen domain of deftly-misdealing & un-democratic derivatives-dumpers/dictators.
Gareth Howell: Yours too is a “hope springs eternal” contribution, as if from a hilltop of observation-post, and come as guiding glimpses from an otherwise almost totally-blacked-out would-be-democratic People.
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Saturdays’ Lord Mayor’s Show was a real sort-of-democratic ‘eye-opener’ – so many guilds and groups, above our own individual heads but so rarely seen as being the “Heart” of this English-Nation;
whereas the Cenotaph just put me further down in the Dumps – it all seemed so much more snobbishly ‘put-on’ than that Peoples’-Guilds parade.
So, whilst waiting for a succinct-graphic from on high, I spotted three little jacket-pocket-sized books from the shop in Derriford Hospital and, my word, they are indeed soberly comforting to such a be-nighted mind as I too have to openly begin lamenting:
“Success” (How to pick which Expertises our Experts either never learned, have forgotten, or deliberately exclude from use);
“NLP” (NeuroLinguisticProgramming – DIY);
“CBT” (Cognitive-Behaviour Therapy – DIY)
no joking, just the succinct ‘one-word’ lists of Contents are enlilghtening ‘crib-sheets’ in themselves.
As PM Cameron from the Despatch Box
(I thought ‘boomerangily’)
instructed The Opposition last week,
to get in some basic education;
so evidently at all levels, yes All Levels, do we each and all need to get-in.
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I now go, to seriously to prepare my Three Principles Appraisal – thank you
Maude, How can I respond? Are you objecting to me going to Italy? And how do you know I don’t see any connections with the UK? That’s another blog, watch this space.
Now what are austerity savings spent on? Debt Maude, Debt! Who gains from austerity to reduce debt? You do, you do.
And you will find that many Italians would support an austerity package, as many do here, if reducing public debt and reinvesting for improved growth would help employment for young people and the economy genererally.
I take your point about patronage here, but actually the Lords Appointments Commission appoints independent peers on merit between applicants like most other jobs but I agree that patronage is the main way of appointing political peers. Can’t get into Lords Reform here, I’ll be supporting an elected house.
A cohesive community with no work is a miserable community. It’s easy to over romanticise the enforced dependency of one generation on another.
You’re so cross…wouldn’t it help to feel there is a collective responsibility for Europe’s problems? Where were you in the boom years?
Maude doesn’t gain by spending on debt payments. She is being taxed and not getting any services is a result.
How can you equate paying lots of money for nothing with a benefit?
There are no plans to reduce debt here. None of the parties plan to reduce debt. They all plan on increasing it.
The reason is that when they talk about deficit, they are just talking about half the deficit. The cyclical deficit, not the structural deficit.
Even on the debt, they aren’t including pensions owed to the citizen. They just refer to borrowing.
You’re so cross…wouldn’t it help to feel there is a collective responsibility for Europe’s problems?
No. If you had a credit card stolen and used to run up massive bills, would you feel better if you had to pay those bills, compared to the thief paying the bill?
It’s the direct analogy. Governments in the UK have run up a debt of 225,000 per person (pensions included), with no assets to back them up. The public haven’t been told. The public haven’t had a vote because you won’t let them. So why should they be responsible? Same analogy as the credit card thief.
So lets see what the Italians will do. I suspect they will do what the Spanish will do, and the Greeks will do. Hit property. So all those people growing olives at their second homes in Italy, don’t get to vote in Italy, so they are the ideal targets for lots of tax.
patronage is the main way of appointing political peers.
I don’t see how being nominated and seconded
is patronage;that’s all it takes. There must be something I’ve missed! It’s a non political peers jibe; not a serious comment.
Political peers are self appointed, and are nominated and seconded by party colleagues.
In that sense patronage.
It is trivial any way.
I’m glad baroness Murphy replied to that ferocious outburst. Owning a yard in Italy is surely a commitment to the renewal of the seasons, the good use of soil and so on. A commendable purpose!
Other, possibly insidiously-entrenched, problems arise from some terms being used, primarily or secondarily, within a Peer’s Blog.
A few here are:
“zero-growth”=”zero-decline” ‘disastrous’?
“(draw togather) myriad warring factions of the centrist parties; and keep the more outlandish ones from having too much influence”:
myriad wars as well as myriad factions; outlandish ?leftists or ?rightists, ?too-much “influence” ?
“private” sector:
should be called “Business Sector”
NB with the runaway-rate at which both finite-renewable and non-renewable resources are being ‘consumed’ (extincted and irreversibly destroyed) and with all of the middle and upper classes drawing many more than one-human-living each from the Common Purse;
neither the Workplace (Business) nor the Lifeplace (‘After-Hours’) should be held “Private” – they both need to be held publicly-visible and accountable;
only matters of human-suffering should be held to be “Private”.
(Similarly) the “Public” Sector should be called the “Governance Sector”.
“Culture” ? healthy or unhealthy ? good or evil ?
each consisting of what sub-cultures, and sub-sub-cultures (sobeit ad nauseam)??
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Where language is so fuddled & muddled how can minds hope to think clearly ?
What I find terrifying about all the articles like this is the inability to concede that whilst it is fine to have technocrats in the ‘civil service’, obedient to democratically elected masters, when they ‘cross the Rubicon’ and replace democracy, dictatorship can surely not be far behind.
There is almost a “C’est la vie..” shoulder-shrugging among the metropolitan elite that as democracy hasn’t served Italy well enough in solving its problems, better to do away with it, because they don’t deserve it.
And whatever ‘quirks’ and ‘features’ Italian life has, do we REALLY want to make everyone in Europe identical and eliminate national identity, diversity and differences ? I have feeling that was tried once or twice before, and that it didn’t end well…
Hey Bedd Gelert, welcome back.
Nothing wrong with the President appointing someone to build a coalition in a national emergency, bureaucrat or not. Maybe Napolitano looked round at the politicians on offer and thought better of it. I’m all in favour of quirky differences in the nations, thats why I love Italy but they don’t love themselves very much at the moment knowing they’re getting poorer all the time. What they’d like is to get their design flair back in the shops of Europe, their creativity back on our screens, their fashion back on the catwalk, their yachts cruising away from Viareggio. A stagnating economy means these previously successful aspects of Italy are disappearing. Food,wine, scenery, weather and family are thank goodness more or less impermeable to a flat-line economy but the Italian joi de vivre is seriously dented by the current situation. I agree we don’t want then to be like us, but surely we want them to be themselves again?