On Thursday December 9th Lord Wallace of Saltaire amazed and alarmed the House by failing to recognise the constitutional importance of Members having access to Parliament during demonstrations. He seemed to see it only as a ‘right to demonstrate’ issue. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201011/ldhansrd/text/101209-0001.htm#10120945000752 But right of access for Parliamentarians is important because attempts have been made in the past to stop Parliament meeting by blocking access. The same has happened more recently in other countries. It is an important constitutional principle.
We all know that Members have to be flexible in the face of a powerful protest like the one over student fees but we also have to meet, debate, vote and decide. I put down another question to clarify the situation and there is now going to be a review of the process. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201011/ldhansrd/text/101214-0001.htm#10121445000904
attempts have been made in the past to stop Parliament meeting by blocking access. The same has happened more recently in other countries. It is an important constitutional principle.
If systematic, successful and permanent attempts are made to block it, there is only one word for it.
Well Wellington said “You must build your House of Parliament on the river: so… that the populace cannot exact their demands by sitting down round you.” Seems about right.
Though people have been known to demonstrate by sailing up river with loudhailers at high tide.
At least members could meet at low tide without interference, and they don’t usually arrive by boat.
From Lord Soley`s speech:
“That mobs have prevented people from accessing Parliament”
A mob did not stop you from entering Parliament, the Police deliberately did not allow for the legitimate protest to leave or go elsewhere. The demostrators were herded to a dead end where the Police tried to falsely imprison them denying them their rights.
Dave.H wrote
” From personal experience I can tell you that it was possible to get in, even when the police were donning their riot gear and heading for the Square, although it did involve a lot more walking than originally expected.”
http://lordsoftheblog.net/2010/12/10/student-protest/#comments
Can you please state exactly how and where you were blocked from access ?
From memory and looking at a map, we were coming down the Jubilee Line and got off at Green Park when the driver announced that the train would not be stopping at Westminster. From there we walked across the park, crossed the Mall and went over the bridge over the lake, and continued across St James Park towards Parliament. We could see a large crowd ahead, and a load of police vans on Birdcage Walk. When we got to the police, I asked one how to get into Parliament for an appointment and he directed me to Cockpit Steps. We duly went that way, onto Old Queen Street and Storey’s Gate, ending up by Westminster Abbey.
There I asked another policeman (we were about 10ft behind the barrier of mounted police, who I think charged at the protestors not long afterwards) and he suggested we go ask some other officers further away from the horses. As we passed the gate to the Abbey, I overheard the priest manning the gate (with only Divine support) direct someone else with basically the same goal to go through Dean’s Yard, so we went that way and down Great College Street.
At the end, more police vans, and things obviously getting interesting as they were picking up shields and putting on helmets. I asked one (who wasn’t dressing up) if it was possible to get to Parliament and he recommended that I forget about my appointment and head the other way because misiles were being thrown. Then he said that if I still wanted to try, to head for Black Rod’s entrance, which we did. The policeman there tried to direct us around the corner to the Peers’ Entrance, but on trying that, we got waved back by other police in full riot gear. On hearing this, the officer at the gate let us through to the pass office, who helpfully called the other entrance and we were duly collected and escorted into the building.
So we made it about an hour later than planned and after a mile and a half of unexpected walking.
“Baroness Knight of Collingtree (Conservative)
My Lords, does my noble friend recall that the very first action of every Parliament every year is to pass an order in Parliament directing the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police to ensure access for all Members of Parliament to Parliament and that,
“no obstruction shall be permitted to hinder the passage of the Lords or Members”,
to cite Erskine May? Is my noble friend aware that during a recent demo, a number of Peers-and, for all I know, MPs-were denied entry by the police for several hours? Is it not a breach of the constitution that Members of Parliament should be prevented from speaking or voting in these Houses?”
“Lord Hughes of Woodside (Labour)
My Lords, notwithstanding that, does the Minister understand that the demonstration before last I was refused access from Westminster Bridge into Parliament Square on the grounds that the policemen had been told that only MPs were allowed access? Despite showing my pass, they refused utterly to accept that the House of Lords is part of Parliament.”
Now if you`re going to continue promoting the myth, the lie, that a mob stopped you please join the Lib-Dems. I believe they have copyright on lies at present.
Today in Court 400 million tons of snow appeared charged with impeding access to Parliament. The snow pleaded act of God but prosecution stated if this were the case the Bishops would have had no problem.
Later this week wrong leaves on the line is due to appear on the same charge, the M25 narrowly escaped prosecution when Police decided their case was merely an accident.
Ken Livingstone and Boris Johnson are still answering Police questions about the way they impede Members by charging for access.
The Black Rod is still deciding whether to press charges as he regularly gets the door slammed in his face.
Lord Soley today joined the free Julian Assange and extradite Carl.H instead movement-to a country with no internet. Carl.H did give a press conference but it was more than 250 words and therefore moderated.
Carl H. I did not intend the word ‘mob’ to apply to the students although I accept it reads like that. My point was a more general historical one relating to deliberate attempts to stop Parliament sitting (both in the UK and overseas).
I had no difficulty entering Parliament during the demonstration but I did have a problem leaving!
With this parliament, I see it as a positive virtue to prevent them sitting as much as possible.
I’m sure that historically there has been a risk of creeping totalitarianism as a result of such things, but are we really expecting that to result from student riots?
Perhaps rather than asking the police to hide you from the results of your mismanagement, you should be wondering just how come people are so damned angry with you.
McDuff
Why do you think I and many other politicians go out so much asking people’s opinions? MP’s of all persuasions go out canvassing between elections. Indeed if you feel so motivated I know several places where you could go and join them. It might encourage you to become a politican yourself!
The Overton Window of parliamentary politics is far too narrow in this country for my tastes, Lord Soley, I’m afraid. There are better ways to influence politics than by squeezing myself into a straitjacket of pretending that I’m meaningfully different from the representative of the other corporatist authoritarian party with the different coloured tie on. And heaven only knows how Paul Dacre would respond to someone like me. As much as I would love to see his head explode in apoplexy, we both know I would be carefully managed into silence before he got a chance to hear me. After all, we cannot upset the editors of the newspapers.
No, I think the current situation has got bad enough that it needs a bit of raucous shouting and banging on pan lids. It’s going to get worse before it gets better and I’m sure the police are going to punch more schoolchildren before this parliament is over, but eventually someone’s going to turn around and say “actually, should we *really* be selling the entire country down the drain for the benefit of a tiny proportion of already-incredibly-rich people?”
They will, of course, be immediately sacked. But at least they’ll be asking the right questions!
The right to demonstrate for freedom is the real freedom.
Some get had up!