I’m sorry but I think those people in the US who wanted to see Mr Obama’s passport are suffering from barely repressed racist attitudes – they can’t get use to the idea that someone of non-European ethnicity can become President. Well he did – good!
Secondly why so much concern about original birth place anyway? Mr Obama obviously identifies strongly with the US and always has done – isn’t that enough? There is at least one British Prime Minister who was not British born. Here is the quiz question! Who was he? When was he PM and what was his original nationality? Lord Norton is not allowed to answer as I have appointed him external examiner – sorry Philip!
Google informs me it was Bonar Law.
Section 1 of Article II of the US Constitution requires that the President be a natural born citizen. That means that if he were born in Kenya for instance he would not be eligible to be President, even if he were legally a US citizen.
For thq uiz – Bonar Law. He was Canadian, wasn’t he?
Secondly why so much concern about original birth place anyway?
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It’s a legal requirement in the USA.
Are you suggesting people should break the law if they don’t agree with it?
Andrew Bonar Law is probably who you are looking for.
However, Duke of Wellington was born in Ireland
Lord Soley, I agree with you about the underlying racist attitudes. Suggesting Obama isn’t American is a bit like asking if the Pope’s a Catholic. Apart from anything else, there must be significant background checks by all sorts of authorities before someone can run for president to ensure they are eligible.
However, on this rare occasion I have to agree with Lord Blagger on something. The US constitution requires that to become president, one must be a “natural-born citizen”. While people may or may not agree with this requirement, that’s how things currently stand, so any change would require new laws. (Some people have suggested this could happen, and could for example make Arnold Schwarzenegger eligible to run for president).
The daft thing is that they don’t even have the definition of “natural-born” nailed down. Is it someone who was born *in* the US or merely someone who was entitled to US citizenship at birth? Had he been born two years earlier, Obama wouldn’t have been born in the US.
I forget which one, but there was a presidential hopeful who, had he gotten far enough in the race, would have forced them to define this because he wasn’t born in the US but acquired citizenship at birth courtesy of his parents.
Dave H: The candidate was Governor George Romney, Governor of Michigan (and father of Mitt Romney), who sought the Republican nomination for the 1968 presidential election. He was initially the front-runner but was overtaken by Richard Nixon. The issue arose because he was born in Mexico, where his parents had moved before later returning to the USA.
Andrew Bonar Law
(1858–1923)
MP for Glasgow Central
PM – 23 October 1922-20 May 1923
Resigned due to ill health
Died 6 months later.
Brown WAS born British but was considered by a lot of English as a foreign PM due to devolution.
someone of non-European ethnicity
I assume you mean black ? That in itself is racist there are many Europeans who are black as there are Americans.
With a name like Barak Obama, and good looks like Barak Obama’s family, and intellect like Barak Obama, and the time being right for a Barak Obama, there would not be many Us complainants if his passport were out of date.
I have no doubt Disraeli was British through and through, even if his name says ” I come from Israel”
I know lots of Patagonians whose name is Gummer, meaning from Wales, so there is no evidence there!
Surely just as absurd is that John Oven Chips very nearly wasn’t eligible to become President because he was born in a canal?
Many Americans are naturally suspicious (often with good reason!) and simply wanted proof that the law had been followed. Branding them racists is, I think, rather foolish.
I rather wish people in the UK cared as much about our Constitution.
As has been said already, Bonar Law was born in the Colony of New Brunswick (a decade-odd before Canadian confederation). However as Jonathan pointed out, Wellington was born in Ireland before Ireland formed an equal part of the United Kingdom. So both were born in British territories, but outside the United Kingdom. Take your pick.
The US has been fight Islamic terrorism with a passion for a while now so it is not so much Barack Obama as Barack Hussein Obama that bigotry is latching onto. The name Hussein is Islamic in origin and in Jordan it is the royal equivalent of many of our own royal name associations. His parents no doubt thought he was a ‘good small handsome’ baby so they called him Hussein. The answer is for him is to assimilate his name to Barack Handsome Obama. Then the girls can say “hey there handsome!” leaving his wife no reason to complain.
Ref: Hussein meaning and name origin
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Hussein
I get tired of he whole “If you don’t like Obama you must be racist” routine, and think you are ignorant of US Law.
Obama is not impressive because he’s from African stock, no matter how lefties try to depict this as some great victory for Humanity. He’s a Politician who needs to be judged according to his Policies and his Execution, not for his ability to make us feel warm and fuzzy by fitting into Politically Correct fantasies.
By the way, he has not helped the actual Economy, nor have his policies in Health care been Universally acclaimed. No, its not because he’s Black, Clinton was white and the same problems existed.
While IO agree the Birther issue was nonsense, the Truth is that had he not been Born in the US, then under the American Constitution he’d be ineligible to be President as you have to be a Natural Born Citizen. “Strongly Identifying” doesn’t really make him Natural Born.
Heck, I was born in Sussex and strongly identify with being British yet on these boards am told I am an American. I am also a Libertarian with no animosity towards other religion but said I want to deny other religions rights. Do you really think any of that matters?
Again, I never really got into the Birther Issue and thought it a pointless distraction, but the reason it existed was the same reason conspiracy Theories about Bush being in Liege with Osama Ben laden existed. People on the Left hated Bush, so the Conspiracy Theories allowed him to become a Great Villain by linking him with another Enemy, and thus justified the amount of Hatred they felt, which really stemmed from him being a Republican.
Obama is a Democrat, so some n the Republican party don’t like him due to his Policies, but justify the excess of Hatred by inventing wild claims about him. This lets him be a bigger bad guy than he really is, the same as Bush was made into a Bigger Bad guy than he really was.
It really isn’t a race Issue at all, but a Political one.
By the way, why is it that we aren’t discussing our Princes upcoming wedding, but are discussing what is ultimately a Fringe ( and small) group of American Conservatives?
Mr. Howell-
Obama is not a Genius. He has average intelligence, and can’t even speak without a teleprompter.
I really don’t get the attraction to him. I mean sure, he’s from African decent and that makes us feel all good that we have evolved and can accept other races, except those racists who didn’t vote for him. Can’t be they disagreed with his policies…
But come on, the whole Incredible good looks and remarkable intelligence claims are just padding, with no substance.
He fits out narrative and so we project onto him certain traits to make him more heroic than he really is.
Obama’s actual Administration has not produced any Actual results that are praiseworthy. He has introduced an unpopular Health care plan, has not ended the War in Aphganastan, and has now been undecided in Libya. He has also managed to push for higher taxation which has proven controversial. He has few if any Legislative Victories and those he has won have been hotly contested, and no not because of Racism. DO you really think repealing the DOMA would have been OK if he were white?
Obama is more Style than Substance.
Of course, the nutters have been going on about Obama’s nationality ever since he was elected. At one point they even claimed he couldn’t be president because – wait for it – he’s actually British:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7771937.stm
In that case, wasn’t George Washington a “Mackem”?
Yes – it was Andrew Bonar Law and he was Canadian. Prizes all round and a vote of thanks to the external examiner, Lord Norton!
We could do a similar exercise on the Kings and Queens of the UK but that would take too long and seriously tax my knowledge but it is interesting that Britain has a rather flexible and pragmatic approach to this.
aLSO, THE United Kingdom, and for that matter most Nations, have no equivalent to the United States law on Natural Born Citesens. If I moved to France and lived there a while I could theoretically run for President.
Meanwhile, one other minor problem comparing the US Law with the UK. None of the PM’s have ever been Head of State, except Cromwell.
In Britain, as I shouldn’t have to remind anyone here but I apparently do, Her Majesty the Queen is Head of State, not the PM. The PM is more equivalent to the Speaker of the House or the Senate Majority Leader. By the way, neither of those require Natural Birth in the US.
Bonar Law was born at a time when British nationality was not distinguishable from being a subject of the Crown. The only distinction in law then was between British subjects and aliens. Being born in Canada, which was part of Her Majesty’s Dominions, he was a British subject by birth. Of course, it could be argued that Bonar Law, while British by that standard, was not English, he shared the latter misfortune with many other of our King’s and Queens’ First Ministers.
“Kings and Queens of the UK”
There would be no comparison with Handsome Obama, but heck that’s funny!
Jonathan, I know loads gang up on me on this blog, but hear me out.
The US COnstitutions Natural Born Citesen Law states one must be a Nstural Born Citesen of the United States or a Citesen at the time of tha adioption of this Constitution.
Anyone who was a Citesen of the United States prior to the COnstitutions Raification in 1789 was elibable to be President, which included men like Thomas Paine who were born elsewhere. Paine was Born in England.
The requirement to be a “natural born” citizen was put in the constitution when the USA was new to stop foreign (probably British) ursurption of government and made perfect sense at the time. And it’s not so ridiculous that anyone can be bothered to change the constitution which is quite bothersome to say the least. And “Dave H”: congress have defined “natural born” although the supreme court could overturn this, the definition is not so unreasonable that this is likely. There was an article in the Guardian this week about it.
As the external examiner (unpaid) I can not only confirm that Andrew Bonar Law was indeed born in Canada but also that Article II, section 1, of the U.S. Constitution provides that “No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen years a Resident within the United States.”
I should also add, on a note of spelling, that the President is Barack Obama. Some people (mentioning no names) miss out the c in Barack.
Obama was being asked by the US public for his birth certificate long before he was elected. The story then was not picked up by the media. Who knows why?
And the reason they were asking is, first, it is not legal to be the American President unless you are an American born on US soil. and there is a very good reason for that. One which we would do well to look into. The second reason is, his Kenyan family had told the media that he was born in Kenya whilst his mother was visiting and tat she flew to the US state a day or two later to register him as a US citizen. Because had she not done so, he would not have been automatically able to enter the US without a passport and papers. Which is why they are asking for his passport.
http://maoliworld.ning.com/forum/topics/pono-alert-president-obama-1?page=1&commentId=2011971%3AComment%3A318071&x=1#2011971Comment318071
Then there is this document. Well, there is a very strange mix up here. And why has he waited for three years to put this straight?
http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/obama-kenyan-birth-certificate-born-in-kenya-not-eligible-to-be-president/question-1471257/?page=3
And the issue is not whether you think the US is right to have the clause that no person born outside the US can run for office as President. The law is the law. And anyone breaking it is not worthy of that office anyway.
It’s that simple. But, as our Houses of Parliament are filled with those willing to break the law or fiddle something, but, not pay for those indiscretions, I am not surprised to find the leaning toward ‘it doesn’t really matter, and, they are only doing this because they are racist.’ He wouldn’t be in office if it was an issue of race. Not possible.
What a scam that statement is.
Where does it say that the president has to be born on US soil? The constitution specifies “natural-born American” as I mentioned above, and which has never been defined as requiring US soil.
@Dave H:
You are being deliberately obtuse I take it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen_of_the_United_States
You mean the bit that says
“According to an April 2000 report by the Congressional Research Service, most constitutional scholars interpret Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution as including citizens born outside the United States to parents who are U.S. citizens under the “natural born” requirement. This same CRS report also asserts that citizens born in the District of Columbia, Guam, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands are legally defined as “natural born” citizens and are, therefore, also eligible to be elected President.”
@Dave H:
Well, this may set it straight.
There is a Grandfather clause but it is defined here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen_clause_of_the_U.S._Constitution