Comments on: Hansard to the rescue http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/11/20/hansard-to-the-rescue/ Life and Work in the House of Lords Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:26:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: Jonathan http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/11/20/hansard-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-2310 Jonathan Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:45:50 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=1121#comment-2310 Anyone following the "edited Hansard" debate might be interested in this instance, where the re-wording watered down a reassurance that the ID card database couldn't be hacked into: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/09/hillier_id_deletion/ It's a months-old story now, but was mentioned in a letter to today's Telegraph. Anyone following the “edited Hansard” debate might be interested in this instance, where the re-wording watered down a reassurance that the ID card database couldn’t be hacked into:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/09/hillier_id_deletion/

It’s a months-old story now, but was mentioned in a letter to today’s Telegraph.

]]> By: baronessmurphy http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/11/20/hansard-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-2309 baronessmurphy Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:42:20 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=1121#comment-2309 Mike, the question about whether debates ever change people's minds is a fair one. Rarely I guess in a set speech type of tabled debate, but quite often in debates on amendments. Senex, Yes, I take your point on the Ed Balls "So What?". I suspect the Hansard recorders didn't hear it, but there, I am far more likely to believe in Cock up than conspiracy. Hansard has no axe to grind, it is only as accurate as its recorders. Mike, the question about whether debates ever change people’s minds is a fair one. Rarely I guess in a set speech type of tabled debate, but quite often in debates on amendments.

Senex, Yes, I take your point on the Ed Balls “So What?”. I suspect the Hansard recorders didn’t hear it, but there, I am far more likely to believe in Cock up than conspiracy. Hansard has no axe to grind, it is only as accurate as its recorders.

]]> By: Senex http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/11/20/hansard-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-2308 Senex Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:45:05 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=1121#comment-2308 Baroness: You said: "Perhaps I’m naive but I didn’t think anyone could challenge what was actually recorded, after all it’s there on the parliamentary channel for everyone to hear." Then you must be naive! The leader of the opposition, only a couple of metres away repeats what was said by a government front bench MP. We rely on technology for clarification in the courts but not so in Parliament it seems. The offending MP was quick to restate what was heard; however a sound recording had already captured his indiscretion. The electorate more than at any time in our recent history need to believe in the integrity and processes that take place within Parliament and with the conduct of its politicians. It is the Speaker's office that safeguards standards. It failed in this instance. Perhaps the office grows tired whilst not being completely at one with technology? Hansard in the meanwhile is a hostage to fortune. Ref: Commons PMQ's March 12, 2008 http://oxfordliberal.blogspot.com/2008/03/ed-balls-up-crisis-what-crisis.html http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2008/03/ed-balls-so-wha.html Baroness: You said: “Perhaps I’m naive but I didn’t think anyone could challenge what was actually recorded, after all it’s there on the parliamentary channel for everyone to hear.”

Then you must be naive!

The leader of the opposition, only a couple of metres away repeats what was said by a government front bench MP. We rely on technology for clarification in the courts but not so in Parliament it seems.

The offending MP was quick to restate what was heard; however a sound recording had already captured his indiscretion.

The electorate more than at any time in our recent history need to believe in the integrity and processes that take place within Parliament and with the conduct of its politicians.

It is the Speaker’s office that safeguards standards. It failed in this instance. Perhaps the office grows tired whilst not being completely at one with technology? Hansard in the meanwhile is a hostage to fortune.

Ref: Commons PMQ’s March 12, 2008
http://oxfordliberal.blogspot.com/2008/03/ed-balls-up-crisis-what-crisis.html

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2008/03/ed-balls-so-wha.html

]]> By: Mike http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/11/20/hansard-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-2307 Mike Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:17:41 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=1121#comment-2307 How often do these sorts of debates actually change peoples minds? The word debate, to me, implies a back and forth discussion between a few people rather than a huge number getting up and repeating a pre-set speech. Is it possible to attend a debate with no pre-set speech and then simply respond to what somebody else said. Otherwise why not have everybody send their speech to Hansard directly, seeing as how reading is faster and more flexible than listening. How often do these sorts of debates actually change peoples minds?

The word debate, to me, implies a back and forth discussion between a few people rather than a huge number getting up and repeating a pre-set speech. Is it possible to attend a debate with no pre-set speech and then simply respond to what somebody else said. Otherwise why not have everybody send their speech to Hansard directly, seeing as how reading is faster and more flexible than listening.

]]> By: baronessmurphy http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/11/20/hansard-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-2306 baronessmurphy Sat, 22 Nov 2008 08:27:21 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=1121#comment-2306 Senex, I would agree with you if I thought there was a problem but I have never challenged Hansard,and don't know anyone who has; only corrected very minor errors of fact not of meaning. Perhaps I'm naive but I didn't think anyone could challenge what was actually recorded, after all it's there on the parliamentary channel for everyone to hear. Do you know any factual accountgs of this happening? Senex, I would agree with you if I thought there was a problem but I have never challenged Hansard,and don’t know anyone who has; only corrected very minor errors of fact not of meaning. Perhaps I’m naive but I didn’t think anyone could challenge what was actually recorded, after all it’s there on the parliamentary channel for everyone to hear. Do you know any factual accountgs of this happening?

]]> By: Senex http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/11/20/hansard-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-2305 Senex Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:58:39 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=1121#comment-2305 You say: "Hansard doesn’t change the meaning of speeches made but does omit the ums,ahs, errs and tidy up the grammar if we have been unwittingly ungrammatical and also does occasionally clarify a ’shoots eats leaves’ problem by adding punctuation." If an orator says something that might sound like something else and is challenged about it Hansard is currently obliged to record what the orator insists they said even if it is contrary to any public domain sound recording. Surely this is wrong. A tennis ball out of court can be verified by technology even when the player insists that the ball is in court. Such rare conflicts should be subject to scrutiny by the Speaker's office before being written up. It is within the power of the Speaker's office to restore Parliaments low esteem in the public eye. Forcing Hansard to do otherwise serves nobody well. You say: “Hansard doesn’t change the meaning of speeches made but does omit the ums,ahs, errs and tidy up the grammar if we have been unwittingly ungrammatical and also does occasionally clarify a ’shoots eats leaves’ problem by adding punctuation.”

If an orator says something that might sound like something else and is challenged about it Hansard is currently obliged to record what the orator insists they said even if it is contrary to any public domain sound recording.

Surely this is wrong. A tennis ball out of court can be verified by technology even when the player insists that the ball is in court.

Such rare conflicts should be subject to scrutiny by the Speaker’s office before being written up. It is within the power of the Speaker’s office to restore Parliaments low esteem in the public eye. Forcing Hansard to do otherwise serves nobody well.

]]> By: Baronessmurphy http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/11/20/hansard-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-2304 Baronessmurphy Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:39:24 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=1121#comment-2304 McDuff, the point you make is a serious one. Hansard doesn't change the meaning of speeches made but does omit the ums,ahs, errs and tidy up the grammar if we have been unwittingly ungrammatical and also does occasionally clarify a 'shoots eats leaves' problem by adding punctuation. When we are obviously using speaking notes as I was the other day, an attendant will ask if Hansard can borrow them so that they have a clear record of what we were intending to say, which helps to eradicate errors in spelling proper names and assists the Hansard recorders in getting the meaning clear. My experience of Hansard has been wholly good and only very rarely do we need to point out a transcription error which needs to be changed in the printed record McDuff, the point you make is a serious one. Hansard doesn’t change the meaning of speeches made but does omit the ums,ahs, errs and tidy up the grammar if we have been unwittingly ungrammatical and also does occasionally clarify a ‘shoots eats leaves’ problem by adding punctuation. When we are obviously using speaking notes as I was the other day, an attendant will ask if Hansard can borrow them so that they have a clear record of what we were intending to say, which helps to eradicate errors in spelling proper names and assists the Hansard recorders in getting the meaning clear. My experience of Hansard has been wholly good and only very rarely do we need to point out a transcription error which needs to be changed in the printed record

]]> By: Jonathan http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/11/20/hansard-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-2303 Jonathan Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:52:44 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=1121#comment-2303 McDuff: it is often said that John Prescott's contributions in the Commons had to be tidied up by Hansard in order to say what Mr Prescott actually meant! McDuff: it is often said that John Prescott’s contributions in the Commons had to be tidied up by Hansard in order to say what Mr Prescott actually meant!

]]> By: McDuff http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/11/20/hansard-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-2302 McDuff Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:43:56 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=1121#comment-2302 Ah, the tragedy of democracy, that "popular but talentless" will always beat "unpopular and talented". Damned if you do and damned if you don't, really. A question, Baroness Murphy. You seemed to imply that the Hansard record did not transcribe what you said exactly. Is this common practice? What are the regulations and guidelines for altering the public record in this way? I have no wish to embarrass anyone, nor do I disagree with you on the specific issues raised, but I do admit to a touch of unease that the official record of Parliament can be considered open to interpretation. Ah, the tragedy of democracy, that “popular but talentless” will always beat “unpopular and talented”. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t, really.

A question, Baroness Murphy. You seemed to imply that the Hansard record did not transcribe what you said exactly. Is this common practice? What are the regulations and guidelines for altering the public record in this way?

I have no wish to embarrass anyone, nor do I disagree with you on the specific issues raised, but I do admit to a touch of unease that the official record of Parliament can be considered open to interpretation.

]]> By: Jonathan http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/11/20/hansard-to-the-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-2301 Jonathan Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:09:18 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=1121#comment-2301 Talentless yes, but where are all these popular politicians? Surely an oxymoron? If people voted in elections with the fervour that they vote for programmes such as Strictly Come Dancing, political apathy wouldn't be an issue. Talentless yes, but where are all these popular politicians? Surely an oxymoron? If people voted in elections with the fervour that they vote for programmes such as Strictly Come Dancing, political apathy wouldn’t be an issue.

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