Comments on: Not much joy on e-petitions

By: lordnorton

lordnorton — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:36:09 +0000

nuttyxander: The Lords has not looked at how the petitions system works in Holyrood, but the Procedure Committee in the Commons did so as part of its examination of e-petitioning (though I know it did not quite get it right in terms of its analysis of what happens there). What you write is also relevant in the context of the contributions from Mike and Liam: that is, the need to learn from experience, even if in the cases they cite it is in terms of learning from deficiencies of systems that have been introduced.

Mike and Liam: you both raise relevant points. I have no idea of why it is considered a system could not be introduced before 2010. Liam: I take your point about offering a choice in terms of options. E-petitions could be used for what paper petitions are presently used for (albeit, in the case of the Lords, infrequently!). You both raise valuable points, which suggest that if the Lords did explore the option it could actually be a leader in terms of implementing an advanced system.

By: nuttyxander

nuttyxander — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:22:45 +0000

This sounds very backward indeed. Has any kind of fact finding mission been sent from Westminster to Holyrood to take note of the rather successful petitions committee there? It seems bizarre to have the Lords waiting on the Commons when there are devolved legislature already innovating in such areas.

By: Liam

Liam — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:22:08 +0000

What could e-Petitions to The Lords be used for? Could, for example, a petition be created to stop the extradition of Gary McKinnon to the US? Please may we have some examples of what The Lords would expect to see such a system used for?

The biggest problem to my mind, is that the e-petition system for the lower house has turned out to be a bit of a debacle. It doesn’t seem to have an effect on the government’s actions. Having joined a few of the petitions, the reply always seems to be: ‘Party line on subject X.’ Written by Bernard Wooley, obfuscated by Sir Humphrey Appleby. Try to say as little, with as many words, as possible.

Lastly, would a new system be needed for The Lords? Could three option boxes be added to the existing petition system:

Which house do you wish to petition? The Commons x, The Lords x, Both x

Then just handle it all using the existing platform. Just a suggestion.

By: Mike

Mike — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:32:06 +0000

Hm, do petitions (or e-petitions) really tell you anything useful? I looked at the HoC e-petitions and wasn’t very impressed. Most of them consisted of an inflammatory and poorly thought out 2-sentence proposition with a bunch of names after it. Features that were lacking:

- ability to debate the petition

- ability to put your name down as against the petition

- ways of finding related petitions

- ability to take your name off a petition if you later rethought

I asked the guy who did the Commons e-petition system about this and he basically said there were no plans to implement any of these features, because it was meant to just be an electronic equivalent of the traditional system. Seemed backwards to me – if you go to the trouble of digitizing something, why not take advantage of all the new features that are possible? Simplicity is good, but too much simplicity is not.

BTW, how was the figure of “not before 2010″ arrived at? How much of that time is HoL processes and how much is actually implementing the system? Even a quite sophisticated online petitions system shouldn’t take a competent developer more than a couple of months to implement. Robust hosting is available pretty cheaply these days also.