Comments on: What's in a name? http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/04/14/whats-in-a-name-2/ Life and Work in the House of Lords Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:26:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: lordnorton http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/04/14/whats-in-a-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-485 lordnorton Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:13:00 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=234#comment-485 Stuart: I will have a go at reproducing it. Sometimes, what for some people is a simple technical problem is for me a technical problem that proves that I am simple. Anyway, let's see what I can do. Stuart: I will have a go at reproducing it. Sometimes, what for some people is a simple technical problem is for me a technical problem that proves that I am simple. Anyway, let’s see what I can do.

]]> By: Stuart http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/04/14/whats-in-a-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-484 Stuart Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:37:47 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=234#comment-484 Thank you very much for the full answer. I'd love to see it. Thank you very much for the full answer. I’d love to see it.

]]> By: lordnorton http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/04/14/whats-in-a-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-483 lordnorton Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:23:55 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=234#comment-483 Stuart: my understanding is that the coat of arms is specific to the individual title. You can have a 'badge' to accompany the coat of arms, which I gather (if I remember the guidance of Garter King of Arms correctly) may be used by other members of the family. However, the coat of arms does not extend beyond the individual who holds the title. In terms of my choice of items for inclusion, I wanted a church spire to represent Louth (the town is dominated by St James' Parish Church, which has one of the tallest spires in the country), a bee to represent industriousness (I can claim to work hard!), the fleur-de-lys to represent Lincolnshire, and birds of learning to represent scholarship. Garter included the colours of the University of Hull on the shield and added blue to represent the River Humber. I chose 'Scholarship, Endeavour, Integrity' as the motto to reflect my aspirations. Garter got to work and produced what I think is a highly attractive coat of arms, with a spire with a bee on top above the shield and with owls with feathers in their beaks as supporters on either side. If anybody is at all remotely interested, I could try to scan it and reproduce it. Stuart: my understanding is that the coat of arms is specific to the individual title. You can have a ‘badge’ to accompany the coat of arms, which I gather (if I remember the guidance of Garter King of Arms correctly) may be used by other members of the family. However, the coat of arms does not extend beyond the individual who holds the title.

In terms of my choice of items for inclusion, I wanted a church spire to represent Louth (the town is dominated by St James’ Parish Church, which has one of the tallest spires in the country), a bee to represent industriousness (I can claim to work hard!), the fleur-de-lys to represent Lincolnshire, and birds of learning to represent scholarship. Garter included the colours of the University of Hull on the shield and added blue to represent the River Humber. I chose ‘Scholarship, Endeavour, Integrity’ as the motto to reflect my aspirations. Garter got to work and produced what I think is a highly attractive coat of arms, with a spire with a bee on top above the shield and with owls with feathers in their beaks as supporters on either side. If anybody is at all remotely interested, I could try to scan it and reproduce it.

]]> By: Stuart http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/04/14/whats-in-a-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-482 Stuart Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:07:38 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=234#comment-482 Thank you, Michael. I guess our constitution always allows for exceptions, flexible as it is. Thank you, Michael. I guess our constitution always allows for exceptions, flexible as it is.

]]> By: lordnorton http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/04/14/whats-in-a-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-481 lordnorton Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:04:02 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=234#comment-481 Michael: thanks for an extremely informative comment. It would be interesting to know if that is the only exception. You have tempted me to research further. In response to itsneverdullinhull, you may have noticed that ladytizzy asked me in response to an earlier post ('Brussels and beyond') what book, music and luxury item I would select if I were to appear on Desert Island Discs. (Fat chance, though: I'm not that interesting.) I responded in respect of the luxury item and book. As to music, I am not that up to date with the latest beat combos. I know, though, that 'Take That' have made something of a comeback. I did once appear on a mini-equivalent of Desert Island Discs on Radio Humberside (as your screen name suggests, it's never dull in Hull!) and had to choose three items of music: I went for 'Eleanor Rigby' (Beatles), 'Bohemian Rhapsody' (Queen) and a stirring piece by Beethoven. Michael: thanks for an extremely informative comment. It would be interesting to know if that is the only exception. You have tempted me to research further.

In response to itsneverdullinhull, you may have noticed that ladytizzy asked me in response to an earlier post (‘Brussels and beyond’) what book, music and luxury item I would select if I were to appear on Desert Island Discs. (Fat chance, though: I’m not that interesting.) I responded in respect of the luxury item and book. As to music, I am not that up to date with the latest beat combos. I know, though, that ‘Take That’ have made something of a comeback. I did once appear on a mini-equivalent of Desert Island Discs on Radio Humberside (as your screen name suggests, it’s never dull in Hull!) and had to choose three items of music: I went for ‘Eleanor Rigby’ (Beatles), ‘Bohemian Rhapsody’ (Queen) and a stirring piece by Beethoven.

]]> By: itsneverdullinhull http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/04/14/whats-in-a-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-480 itsneverdullinhull Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:28:03 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=234#comment-480 Good afternoon my Lord, I was just wondering if you went onto desert Island Discs (and you are enough of a celebrity to deserve a show!!!) would you choose OK computer by radiohead or Defninately Maybe by OASIS? i appreciate this has little or no relevance to the discussion, but i have always wanted to know! Regards Good afternoon my Lord,

I was just wondering if you went onto desert Island Discs (and you are enough of a celebrity to deserve a show!!!) would you choose OK computer by radiohead or Defninately Maybe by OASIS?

i appreciate this has little or no relevance to the discussion, but i have always wanted to know!

Regards

]]> By: Michael http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/04/14/whats-in-a-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-479 Michael Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:18:22 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=234#comment-479 Thank you for your reply, Lord Norton. In answer to your reply to Stuart's question, can I point out that I can think of at least one example where a life peer has taken a title which had been held before? The example I have in mind is actually Laurence Olivier, the first actor to receive a peerage. According to Terry Coleman's authorised biography of Olivier, the first Lord Olivier was the actor's uncle, the civil servant, whose peerage became extinct at his death in 1943. Coleman claims that at the time Laurence Olivier became a peer (1970), there was rule at the College of Arms that for a title to be repeated then the original recipient would have to have been dead for a hundred years. In this case, the rule was relaxed and Olivier was allowed to become plain Lord Olivier, although only after having gained the agreement of his cousins. Whether or not such a rule still exists I don't know, but it all sounds rather torturous! Thank you for your reply, Lord Norton. In answer to your reply to Stuart’s question, can I point out that I can think of at least one example where a life peer has taken a title which had been held before? The example I have in mind is actually Laurence Olivier, the first actor to receive a peerage. According to Terry Coleman’s authorised biography of Olivier, the first Lord Olivier was the actor’s uncle, the civil servant, whose peerage became extinct at his death in 1943. Coleman claims that at the time Laurence Olivier became a peer (1970), there was rule at the College of Arms that for a title to be repeated then the original recipient would have to have been dead for a hundred years. In this case, the rule was relaxed and Olivier was allowed to become plain Lord Olivier, although only after having gained the agreement of his cousins. Whether or not such a rule still exists I don’t know, but it all sounds rather torturous!

]]> By: Stuart http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/04/14/whats-in-a-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-478 Stuart Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:49:07 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=234#comment-478 Is the coat of arms of a life peer applicable only to that person, or is it a family coat of arms, which passes down the generations? Can you tell us what aspects of your life you wanted incorporated, how that was done, and what involvement you had or consultation took place? Ignore me if I am prying. I am just curious. Is the coat of arms of a life peer applicable only to that person, or is it a family coat of arms, which passes down the generations? Can you tell us what aspects of your life you wanted incorporated, how that was done, and what involvement you had or consultation took place? Ignore me if I am prying. I am just curious.

]]> By: lordnorton http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/04/14/whats-in-a-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-477 lordnorton Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:33:56 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=234#comment-477 In response to Stuart, the answer is no. Even if the holder has died, the title cannot be repeated. (The exception is, as far as I am aware, royal titles: Duke of York etc.) On a related point, you can though take the same territorial designation as someone else as long as the family name is different. Thus, for example, we have Lord Howe of Aberavon and Lord Morris of Aberavon. Michael raises a point on which I could wax lyrical for some time. You have to visit the College of Arms to discuss your title and get it approved. Fortunately, Garter King of Arms had no problem with mine, though there are various stories (many no doubt apocryphal) of problems he has raised with some suggested titles. The College, which is self-financing, is keen to encourage new peers to take coats of arms - which do not come cheaply. I did decide to have one, given that it was a one-off opportunity and a means of incorporating things I wanted to commemorate about my life. I indicated what I would like incorporating and, I must say, the College did an impressive job. In response to Stuart, the answer is no. Even if the holder has died, the title cannot be repeated. (The exception is, as far as I am aware, royal titles: Duke of York etc.) On a related point, you can though take the same territorial designation as someone else as long as the family name is different. Thus, for example, we have Lord Howe of Aberavon and Lord Morris of Aberavon.

Michael raises a point on which I could wax lyrical for some time. You have to visit the College of Arms to discuss your title and get it approved. Fortunately, Garter King of Arms had no problem with mine, though there are various stories (many no doubt apocryphal) of problems he has raised with some suggested titles. The College, which is self-financing, is keen to encourage new peers to take coats of arms – which do not come cheaply. I did decide to have one, given that it was a one-off opportunity and a means of incorporating things I wanted to commemorate about my life. I indicated what I would like incorporating and, I must say, the College did an impressive job.

]]> By: Michael http://lordsoftheblog.net/2008/04/14/whats-in-a-name-2/comment-page-1/#comment-476 Michael Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:03:32 +0000 http://lordsoftheblog.wordpress.com/?p=234#comment-476 Lord Norton, on a somewhat related topic, I believe that Garter King of Arms from the College of Arms is the man whom all new peers have to consult on their choice of title (I've seen this process referred to in a number of peers' autobiographies, including the late Roy Jenkins's A Life at the Centre). I've also noted from the College of Arms website that there has been a steady trickle of life peers over the past years being granted arms; I was therefore wondering if you yourself had done the same? Lord Norton, on a somewhat related topic, I believe that Garter King of Arms from the College of Arms is the man whom all new peers have to consult on their choice of title (I’ve seen this process referred to in a number of peers’ autobiographies, including the late Roy Jenkins’s A Life at the Centre). I’ve also noted from the College of Arms website that there has been a steady trickle of life peers over the past years being granted arms; I was therefore wondering if you yourself had done the same?

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